wardog6d
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imported post
Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
wardog6d wrote:I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
OC is illegal
You will be shot
You won't OC in their town
You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
etc...
Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.
This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.
ETA: Two things, first... welcome!
Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
Can't make it tonight as I am working but thank you very much for the offer...Yes I have been there alot...Pretty good facility.Ever been to Top Gun in Taylor?
I'll be there in about an hour and a half (around 7pm) tonight to shoot bowling pins.
You should come out and we can talk. Just ask for Doug...
Basiclly I work in the legal industry and on some occasions. Not having a firearm on my person in some area's can be extremly dangerous including but not limited to the Metro Detroit area. Mace and other personal defense weapons may do the job in some cases however bringing a can of mace to a gun fight as I have learned through personal experiance is not only dangerous but outright crazy. I have just recently started to OC due to recent events while on duty and have felt the need to do so. As I plan on obtaining a CCW/CPL in the future until that times arrives I have been very cautious in OC and have limited OC to PPO's only.SQLtables wrote:wardog6d wrote:I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
OC is illegal
You will be shot
You won't OC in their town
You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
etc...
Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.
This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.
ETA: Two things, first... welcome!
Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
Wow! Did you have a bad day today?
Nope, today went pretty well actually. Why do you ask?SQLtables wrote:wardog6d wrote:I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
OC is illegal
You will be shot
You won't OC in their town
You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
etc...
Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.
This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.
ETA: Two things, first... welcome!
Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
Wow! Did you have a bad day today?
Glad to hear it. Just a couple things made me ask...
First, I thought wardog6d was asking about downriver LEO experiences in encountering open carriers within their communities, whereas you seemed to read it as him asking their opinions on open carry.
Second, I thought it was slightly amusing how you jumped right into your rather pointed reply before stepping back, and welcoming him to the forum.
Educating people on OC is one thing but, it is an activity that can get the practitioner involved in legal entanglement. If people are so thin skinned, and easily offended, then its not untoward to assume that they won't behave in like manner when an officer throws them in the back of a cruiser and tells them that OC is illegal. It would be nice if, "just knowing OC is legal" were enough, but it isn't.Your comment on your "approach" reminds me of a job I had quite a few years ago. I was responsible forwriting toour customers regarding their financial transactions. The task struck me as a type of technical writing, so I wrote my letters accordingly.
I received a few complaints about my writing style being curt and pointed. My supervisor approached me on the subject, but she had to agree that everything I wrote was accurate and inoffensive.
I told her I would add a few "flowers" to my letters. She laughed and accepted my proposal, knowing I meant to add some fluff and filler to the letters so that our more tender skinned customers could find no reason to be offended.
Your approach is probably just fine, and your comments on LEO opinions certainly fall in line with so very many experiences shared on the forum. I've read your posts before, and typically find myself in agreement with you.
Many new members do not seem to be easily offended by the energy level shown in the postings on this forum. I am just a little concerned that we might keep a few more if they had a chance to aclimate themselves slower to the forum.
Your comment on your "approach" reminds me of a job I had quite a few years ago. I was responsible forwriting toour customers regarding their financial transactions. The task struck me as a type of technical writing, so I wrote my letters accordingly.
I received a few complaints about my writing style being curt and pointed. My supervisor approached me on the subject, but she had to agree that everything I wrote was accurate and inoffensive.
I told her I would add a few "flowers" to my letters. She laughed and accepted my proposal, knowing I meant to add some fluff and filler to the letters so that our more tender skinned customers could find no reason to be offended.
Your approach is probably just fine, and your comments on LEO opinions certainly fall in line with so very many experiences shared on the forum. I've read your posts before, and typically find myself in agreement with you.
Many new members do not seem to be easily offended by the energy level shown in the postings on this forum. I am just a little concerned that we might keep a few more if they had a chance to aclimate themselves slower to the forum.
It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
The point that calling your local police department is kind of pointless. Contacting superiors within the police department personally will get much better results. Have you ever met those 911 operators. Most of whom are either 1 year from retirement, broke or a contracted civilian. This is my point those in the decision making titles need to be notified, not some poge that doesn't have a clue. Once the higher ups are notified well. The old saying "Stuff goes down hill" That is all I am trying to point out. Some 23, 24 year old kid making $30,000 a year doesn't care weather you say OC ing is legal or not. All he knows is that he is on a call with a man with a gun. Until his superiors acknowledge the fact that it is legal, you are spinning your wheels. Once that same kid is told by his superiors that he and the city could be sued for his actions and he will be responsible that kid may change his attitude in a hurry.wardog6d wrote:It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.
The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
The bottom line is within any Police department and Community court system there is a chain of command. As a citizen you need to understand that and use it to your advantage to actually make a positive impact. Please do not get me wrong as I am NOT an LEO. I do, as I said before support OC. and support this site. There are right ways and wrongs ways of doing things is all I am pointing out. I am no attorney and have very little experience in regards to OC. However I have a lot of experiance with the judicial system and police departments. I am not saying not to send the packets to the police but merely suggesting to make sure the Cheif of police recieves it. Not some poge behind a desk.wardog6d wrote:It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.
The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
Aren't you the one who asked for LEO opinions? I'm very confused.Venator wrote:The bottom line is within any Police department and Community court system there is a chain of command. As a citizen you need to understand that and use it to your advantage to actually make a positive impact. Please do not get me wrong as I am NOT an LEO. I do, as I said before support OC. and support this site. There are right ways and wrongs ways of doing things is all I am pointing out. I am no attorney and have very little experience in regards to OC. However I have a lot of experiance with the judicial system and police departments. I am not saying not to send the packets to the police but merely suggesting to make sure the Cheif of police recieves it. Not some poge behind a desk.wardog6d wrote:Lot's of words....
Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.
The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."