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Thread: wisconsin law

  1. #1
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    Hi, I am new to this forum. I have been reading some of the discussions and people keep saying this and that about the law. They will at least cite their references (some times) but no one has put a link to show were they are getting them. Anyone can say something and even cite a reference for it and be lying or just misinformed.

    I have been talking with a friend about open carrying here in Wisconsin. My friend kept asking me if i was sure it was legal to open carry. So i told him what i had been reading about it here, but that still wasn't enough for him. He wanted to see the actual law. I thought that that was a great idea. After spending a lot of time trying to refind the stuff i had read to see if i could find the referenced laws.

    Indeed I did find what i was looking for so I thought I would share what I have found.

    I found the Wisconsin state constitution. I also found the Wisconsin state statute that has been referenced a lot here, along with a bunch of other Wisconsin firearm laws.

    here is the site that i found them on. Oh i should mention that it is government site. so not just some guy that thinks he knows the law.

    http://wsll.state.wi.us/topic/firearms.html

    The two documents that have been tossed around here are ; the Wisconsin constitution section 25 and Wisconsin statute 66.0409

    I have been wanting to open carry a gun since i got a 44 cap and ball revolver when i was 17. I knew then that I could not because i wasn't yet an adult. After reading a few discussions here, i have decided to start to carry openly off my property. i have been carrying and using guns here at home since i was 16, and carrying concealed (again here at home) since i was 18.

    While i am here and still typing i thought that i would ask a question too. I know that carrying a gun that is not properly cased on or in a motorized vehicle is illegal. So i was wondering about on horse back. If any on happens to know off hand that would be kinda nice to know some time.



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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Try here:

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html

    search for the word firearm, and then read all SEVENTY ONE (71) references in the statutes.



    Asyou have mentioned, open carry is not SPECIFICALLY legal, rather it is NOT SPECIFICALLY ILLEGAL which is what makes it legal.

    If you have the RIGHT to carry, which our state constitution say WE DO, and concealed carry is illegal, which the statutes say it is, then open carry MUST be legal, otherwise the right is infringed. There are Wisconsin Supreme Court decisions that basically say just that, if the one is illegal, then there must be another that is legal.

    Now if you DO open carry, yourisk being illegally harrassed, detained, disarmed, and arrested but to date, I am unaware of any individual being charged and convicted for open carry, rather LEO tries the Disorderly charge.

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    You will not find a state statute that specifically states that open carry of firearms is lawful. With very rare exception laws do not tell you what you can do, they tell you what you can not do. The problem in Wisconsin concerning open carry is not so much with the statutes and judicial opinions. Most of us do have concerns about the how's and where's of some of the statutes but the significant concern is the lack of universal opinion among law enforcement concerning our open carry rights and the refusal of the attorney general office to submit public instruction to those agencies.

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    Open carry on a horse is legal since a horse does not meet the definition of a vehicle.

    (74) "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except railroad trains. A snowmobile or electric personal assistive mobility device shall not be considered a vehicle except for purposes made specifically applicable by statute.

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    Smithman:

    It is my opinion that you are correct. A horse is not a vehicle inthe ordinary sense, however, can't you just see some overzealous prosecutor trying to make the case that a horse is a mode of transportation that can transport a personupon a highway and is therfore a vehicle.

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    The laws tell us what we CANNOT do, not what we can do.



    if there is no law specifically staing that we cannot do something, Then it is legal.



    Hunting season!! We all openly carry when huntng, right?? Lots of murders must be taking place out in the woods since everyone is armed, right?? NOPE!!!

    it baffles me that people cannot equate that simple fact to carryng a firearm while not hunting. Everyone thibnks there will be wild west shootouts in the streets, besides the Hmong that murdered several people a few years ago while trespassing, it just does not happen!!



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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    IMO a horse is neither a "device" nor a "vehicle." I think in support this I would point to the motor vehicle code which makes a distinction between vehicles and livestock when it requires:

    346.21 Right−of−way of livestock. The operator of a motor
    vehicle shall yield the right−of−way to livestock being driven over
    or along any highway but any person in charge of such livestock
    shall use reasonable care and diligence to open the roadway for
    vehicular traffic.

    On the other hand, a horse-drawn buggy or wagon would arguably be a vehicle. 347.245 requires "animal drawn vehicles" to be equipped with slow moving vehicle emblems.
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    Shotgun:
    Relax. I'm on your side. I just brought up the horse/vehicle hypothesis to illustrate that we can never second guess what goes on in the mind of some over-zealous prosecutor who needs another conviction in order to earn the employee of the month award.

    Your references go to prove how convoluted many Wisconsin statutes are, not only those concerning firearms.

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    ...How convoluted Wisconsin Statutes in general are. I could write with confidence of SC Statutes, I doubt that Wisc. Statutes will ever be so clear or so clear to me.

    Another elephant to eat another time is rationalizing Wisconsin statutes.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Shotgun:
    Relax. I'm on your side. I just brought up the horse/vehicle hypothesis to illustrate that we can never second guess what goes on in the mind of some over-zealous prosecutor who needs another conviction in order to earn the employee of the month award.

    Your references go to prove how convoluted many Wisconsin statutes are, not only those concerning firearms.
    Yes, agreed.

    The laws and definitions are "specifically vague". Let me illustrate....the laws and definitions are as broad (vague) as possible by using (specific) language to make them to cover the largest number of persons/scenarios. This method of writing laws is of course the entire MO of the state in general, whether in WI, MN, or the federal government. And of course these laws are to tell someone what NOT to do and the consequences if they do.

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    Well from what I am hearing it sounds like I can carry a firearm on a horse. I think that this sunday I will open carry while riding. I will post how that goes.
    Oh i was also thinking about getting a saddle holster/case for my 3030, it will be the kind that the butt of the rifle sticks out. should there be any concern that that might not be considered open?

    Thanks for the all the replies and the encouragement to actually open carry. it is some thing i have been thinking about but never actually really considered doing until i came across Opencarry.org.

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    I've seen that kind of saddle holster and it's never bothered me, nor have I seen anyone get weird over it. But I live in a VERY rural area and saw it there. And I saw it all over the place when I lived in WY, but that really doesn't count here.

    I'm planning the same scabbard for my motorcycle, I'll then find out just if it is "scary" to the chicken sh*ts I pass.
    I aim to misbehave

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    well i open carried today on horseback (my first time). I only went about two miles all together cause it was pretty cold out (about 4 degrees F).
    Next i plan on riding to kwik trip sometime to buy milk and stuff. i have riden there before to get milk and they dont mind the horse and they know me there so i think that would be a good place to go to kinda get more used to it around people. other than my family who always see my with some kind of gun.
    i still dont feel comfortable carrying it with a loaded chamber, and dont think that i will carry it like that. some people think that that is stupid (even i think it is kinda), but i just cant carry it with a round in the pipe. unless i am actively gonna shoot it. i do relize that it is kinda irational to think or feel that way, cause i know that with the safety on even if it falls on the hammer it cant fire (the decocker actually blocks the hammer from falling all the way).

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    Mak, it's all about being comfortable with what you carry. I'm assuming it's a makorov based on your name. Had one for a while but it just didn't do it for me. I have large hands so anything other than a full frame pistol feels strange. Anyway of the pistols that I own I'd only consider carrying my Kimber or my Glock. I personally think that there is nothing wrong with carrying it with a round in the chamber as long as the hammer is down. But then again this is my comfort level. If I'm attacked out on the street taking a second to cock the gun as I draw it(takes some practice but it's worthwhile) is a far better option than having to pull the slide with some dude bearing down on you. If it makes you feel any better I don't keep one in the chamber when it's in the drawer at home. I don't even have the mag in it, though it is close by. But as I said, do what is comfortable for YOU. You're the one carrying so it's your show.
    The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair. Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree any more, when you are carrying it IS your show. You are the master of your domain (No Seinfeld implied jokes here, but they could be funny after all) and you should carry as you see fit.

    I am a firm believer in a loaded chamber and on half cock, if it has half cock. I have an 1873 colt replica that I load 6 in and let it sit half cock as well, but I have s leather strap in my holster that covers the pin.

    Do what you want, the anti's won't like it no matter how you do it.
    I aim to misbehave

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Congratulations on taking the plunge, Mak. Extra credit for doing it on a wickedly chilly day! It got no warmer than minus 2 at my house yesterday, plus the wind added a little bite to it as you surely noticed.


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  17. #17
    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    That was the same temp here today. I was visiting friends in Appleton and had my Ruger Blackhawk on my side, for what little I WAS outside. And part of that time I spent helping a lady with a stuck car try to get moving. Since I was wearing brown Carharts and Iceman boots I am very sure I was not mistaken for a police officer, but I didn't encounter any issues, even with some traffic in the parking lot at the apartment complex moving past me. But then again I am sure the lady was just happy to get moving again.

    It was too friggen cold to carry too long. So I was outside moving in the unplowed parking lot for maybe an hour and a half with intentions of going inside and thawing out my Boo Berries. That and a quick cleaning and oiling later and the Blackhawk was happy again.
    I aim to misbehave

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    Baby steps, baby steps. By the way, the area I was in was the spot where a murder had taken place not too long ago. I guess I wanted to prove something.

    Too bad Miss Zimmerman in Madison hadn't something on her waist that would have either stopped her attacker or gotten the attention of the careless 911 operator. But I am sure the operator would have thought it was just a book dropping off of a shelf or something...
    I aim to misbehave

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    Lammie wrote:
    You will not find a state statute that specifically states that open carry of firearms is lawful. With very rare exception laws do not tell you what you can do, they tell you what you can not do. The problem in Wisconsin concerning open carry is not so much with the statutes and judicial opinions. Most of us do have concerns about the how's and where's of some of the statutes but the significant concern is the lack of universal opinion among law enforcement concerning our open carry rights and the refusal of the attorney general office to submit public instruction to those agencies.
    SoWisconsinites let LEO ignorance and opinion drive your rights?

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