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Thread: Beaumont Enterprise: Pro/Con Editorial on open carry invites YOUR opinions!

  1. #1
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    http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/op...2-03-2008.html

    PRO/CON: Should Texans be allowed to carry guns openly?

    By ENTERPRISE OPINIONS
    December, 3, 2008

    PRO: Let Texans carry guns openly

    Texas has a reputation as a gun-friendly state, and for the most part, it is. But many Texans might be surprised to learn that they lack a right enjoyed by residents of 44 other states - the right to carry a gun openly. The Legislature needs to fix this in the coming session.

    .

    There is no reason why law-abiding Texans shouldn't be able to wear a weapon in plain view. It's hard to imagine a better deterrent to crime. A robber or rapist is not going to tangle with an openly armed citizen - unless the punk has a death wish.

    .

    The namby-pambies who whimpered about the approval of our state's concealed carry law a decade ago will make the same hollow arguments: Shootouts will soar. Kids will have access to guns they couldn't get otherwise. Big companies will be leery about relocating here.

    .

    Hogwash. That stuff didn't happen with concealed carry. It won't after open carry.

    .

    If you don't like guns, fine. Don't own one. Most Texans do. They shouldn't be restricted from carrying a firearm openly when they think they need to.

    .

    CON: Keep guns hidden

    This proposal is crazy. It is 2008, not 1808. Texans do not need to be wearing six-shooters like Wild West gunslingers.

    .

    How in God's name will anyone know if a pistol-packer is licensed and law-abiding or one of those thugs that gun lovers are always warning us about?

    .

    What happens if some bozo with an open gun sits down at a restaurant and his piece falls out of his holster - and sends a bullet ricocheting across the room?

    .

    People who think they need to prove how tough they are should lift weights. Real men and women don't have to carry around a hunk of steel to impress other folks.

    .

    The concealed carry law lets people carry weapons without unduly worrying others. When it was being debated, supporters assured nervous Texans that the change wouldn't affect people who didn't like guns. Now they are escalating the gun issue to a new and ridiculous level.

    .

    Concealed carry is enough. The Legislature should stay away from this legal and cultural mess.

    .

    READERS: What do you think?

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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    The ONE comment that I see on this article actually concerns me. That individual was carrying without apparent full knowledge of the laws as they apply to him and simply 'gave in' because he was tired of being bullied instead of standing up for his rights which would eventually decrease the 'bullying'. On another note, how often was he 'stopped and searched'? What was he doing to be getting stopped that often. When carrying concealed I can't imagine being stopped that often for 'no apparent reason'.

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    I posted the crime statistics for Texas to show people just howcivilized we gun owning, law-abiding actually are.

    2006 in Texas: CHL holders committed only .2275 of a percent of all the convictions in the state.

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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/op...2-03-2008.html

    PRO/CON: Should Texans be allowed to carry guns openly?

    By ENTERPRISE OPINIONS
    December, 3, 2008

    PRO: Let Texans carry guns openly

    Texas has a reputation as a gun-friendly state, and for the most part, it is. But many Texans might be surprised to learn that they lack a right enjoyed by residents of 44 other states - the right to carry a gun openly. The Legislature needs to fix this in the coming session.

    .

    There is no reason why law-abiding Texans shouldn't be able to wear a weapon in plain view. It's hard to imagine a better deterrent to crime. A robber or rapist is not going to tangle with an openly armed citizen - unless the punk has a death wish.

    .

    The namby-pambies who whimpered about the approval of our state's concealed carry law a decade ago will make the same hollow arguments: Shootouts will soar. Kids will have access to guns they couldn't get otherwise. Big companies will be leery about relocating here.

    .

    Hogwash. That stuff didn't happen with concealed carry. It won't after open carry.

    .

    If you don't like guns, fine. Don't own one. Most Texans do. They shouldn't be restricted from carrying a firearm openly when they think they need to.

    .

    CON: Keep guns hidden

    This proposal is crazy. It is 2008, not 1808. Texans do not need to be wearing six-shooters like Wild West gunslingers.

    .

    How in God's name will anyone know if a pistol-packer is licensed and law-abiding or one of those thugs that gun lovers are always warning us about?

    .

    What happens if some bozo with an open gun sits down at a restaurant and his piece falls out of his holster - and sends a bullet ricocheting across the room?

    .

    People who think they need to prove how tough they are should lift weights. Real men and women don't have to carry around a hunk of steel to impress other folks.

    .

    The concealed carry law lets people carry weapons without unduly worrying others. When it was being debated, supporters assured nervous Texans that the change wouldn't affect people who didn't like guns. Now they are escalating the gun issue to a new and ridiculous level.

    .

    Concealed carry is enough. The Legislature should stay away from this legal and cultural mess.

    .

    READERS: What do you think?
    I am sick to death of this dumb argument

    I'm a 5'3" 110lb woman. I do lift weights and stay in shape. Carrying OC isn't about impressing anyone. I can impress andshow off much better if I walked around naked! But that doesn't leave me any better protected.

    Why is this argument left to exist unchallenged!

    Ok, sorry. I'm not implying that OC supporters are egotistical with a chip on their shoulder and want to show off. But the argument above seems to think that is the reason.

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    The Constitution needs to be followed by ALL States, whether it makes someone "feel" uncomfortable or not-where does these people get off? It takes 30 minutes or better-had to wait 4 hours the last time, for a Law Enforcement Officer to arrive at my home over an issue with some "Strangers". Geez, we need to have the Open Carry Law and enforce it-plain and simple! Times are a Changin', again!

    Oh by the way, I'm 6'3", 240 lbs, but I like the idea of going "HEELED".

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Shorts wrote:
    I can impress andshow off much better if I walked around naked!
    Holy cow! That's my new Standard Response to people sho use the "impress" argument.

    "If I wanted you to impress/intimidate you, I'd show you my other gun. [wink]"
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote "The concealed carry law lets people carry weapons without unduly worrying others. When it was being debated, supporters assured nervous Texans that the change wouldn't affect people who didn't like guns. Now they are escalating the gun issue to a new and ridiculous level."

    This response obviously comes from someone with "Head in the sand" syndrom. You mean you feel better not knowing who has a weapon because you cannot see it, than you would knowing a person has one because you can see it?? Criminals will continue to hide their weapons. Someone with one in plain sight gets noticed; criminals dont want that...

    All this anti-carry crap really pisses me off. All you anti's need to take note here. If you are in a store, resturant, mall, whatever, that person who carries a gun legally may be the only reason you make it home to see your family that evening !!! Grow up and take responsibility for yourself and protect you own family, and quit giving sh*t to those adult enough to care about protecting ourselves and our families.


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    I notice how people write, "Texas law lets you to carry concealed with a license." and "Texans should be allowed to open carry.". That scares me. To some extent, I can see how with the criminal element's preferred means of carry being concealed, that you'd want someone to have a license to carry concealed. As I understand the origins of laws against concealed-carry, they were intended to prevent dueling in the 19th century south. We don't have a problem with dueling these days and laws against concealed-carry never stopped it. It was a change in cultural attitude that changed people's feelings about dueling. Laws should be precautionary, not reactionary. Reactionary laws almost never function as intended. Instead of the Texas constitution containing a precautionary 'protection' against infringement of our right to bear arms, it contains a provisionary law that gives the Texas legislature carte blanche to enact a myriad of reactionary or politically correct laws restricting our right to keep and bear arms. On totse.com at this link: http://www.totse.com/en/politics/rig.../txgunlaw.html it correctly calls this law a provision, not a protected right as in Bill of Rights. Here is Article 1 Section 23 of the Texas Constitution called: State Constitutional Provision on Firearms - "Every citizen shall have the right to keep & bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime." Please forgive me for being verbose, but shouldn't we be trying to amend the Texas constitution to 'protect' our right to bear arms rather than leaving provisional law in place that does nothing to forbid the legislature from abridging our carry rights? There should be two easily defined sets of gun laws: One that specifically protects our carry rights, and the other to punish the unlawful use or possesion of firearms by criminals. I'm a libertarian and know that I don't know everything. That being said, I welcome constructive criticism as well as praise.

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    Glock37-

    I agree 100% on your well put thoughts. I think the general attitude here is "One step at a time". In todays climate it makes some sense to shoot (pardon the pun) for something that has a degree of attainability, rather than demand something that likely will go unanswered.

    We have lost many rights, or at least the exercising of rights, to the times. I understand it is perfectly legal to walk around with a long gun in public. That said, I would likely clear out and call the police myself if some guy walked into Walmart holding a shotgun in his hands. Flame me all you want, but my safety, my families safety, and then that of strangers around me is of the highest concern, and someone walking into a store with a shotgun in hand would concern the hell out of me. A holstered sidearm does not concern me at all. I know it can be deployed in a second, but alot changes in the mind between holstered and in-hand, at least in my mind.

    I likely would still CC most of the time, with the exception of to and from the car where I likely would OC.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    What about an AR on a sling, not in hand?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    glock37 wrote:
    We don't have a problem with dueling these days...
    "Sure, no problem, dueling is normal and commonplace, we do it all the time!"

    I just had to read this part twice to realize what you meant... It made me giggle when my first understanding of it was not what you meant at all.

    Since the 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution is not abrogated by States Rights, what any state's own constitution says on the matter is, in oft ignored reality, totally irrelevant.

    But that's just me and my useful, functioning brain. Politicians and their henchmen, on the other hand, prefer not to think; it gives them excuses to behave like tyrants and not be hung for otherwise obvious treason.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    What about an AR on a sling, not in hand?
    Perfectly fine by me. I guess the comfort guage to me is "Does it look like he is about to pull the trigger?" As long as it is carried in a manner that does not look like he is pointed and ready to fire, I have no issue.

    If someone gets scared because a sidearm is holstered in the open, I have to ask if this person also starts to cry when they see police or military armed. If not, then what is the difference, we're all licensed to carry. If they do cry at the sight of police or military, they should just move to France....

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    glock37 wrote:
    ...but shouldn't we be trying to amend the Texas constitution to 'protect' our right to bear arms rather than leaving provisional law in place that does nothing to forbid the legislature from abridging our carry rights? There should be two easily defined sets of gun laws: One that specifically protects our carry rights, and the other to punish the unlawful use or possesion of firearms by criminals.
    The short answer is Yes, you're absolutely correct. However, givenour currentreality there is value to an incremental approach. By showing that OC does not bring about the downfall of civilization, we willcreate a better environment to correct the Texas Constitution at another time. The sooner the better.

    For the antis the visible change from CC to OC is what they will fight hardest. A change to the Texas Constitution will not effect their feelings as adversely. If we approach these issues separately we will have a much greater chance of accomplishing both goals. It's the same approach the Brady bunch uses to strip away our rightsand it has proven to work well.

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    Well, I'm relieved after having this authority explain to me what real men ought to do to impress people. I've been doing it wrong.

    -ljp

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    Whew, I agree. All this time I thought the giant bulge in my pants was impressive. I'll report to my nearest fairness and anatomical wealth re-distribution center right away. And I won't forget to bring my shovel either!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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