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Thread: Rep John Miller (D) Reply

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    David:

    I have received your e-mail asking me to allow concealed handgun permit holders the same carry rights as a Commonwealth Attorney.

    Senate Bill 776 only gives a Commonwealth Attorney the right to carry a handgun without a permit while traveling in the Commonwealth. I have checked the Attorney General’s web site and I could not find an official opinion saying SB 776 gives a Commonwealth Attorney the right to carry a gun in a restaurant or on school grounds.

    As you may know, under state code Commonwealth Attorney’s are considered part of the law enforcement department in their county or city. Another difference between them and private citizens is that a Commonwealth Attorney makes a living putting people in jail. For those reasons, I do not believe private citizens should have the same rights as a Commonwealth Attorney in this area.

    While we differ on this issue, I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and concerns with me.

    John Miller







    To: District01@sov.state.va.us

    From: XXXXXX@XXXXX.net

    Date: 11/25/2008 01:27PM

    Subject: Constituent request

    Dear Senator,

    I urge you to pre-file two bills for gun owners this year. Both bills give trained concealed handgun permit holders the same carry rights as an untrained and off-duty state lawyer based on a bill (SB 776) that you voted for in the 2008 session:

    1. A bill to strike 18.2-308 J3. This will allow a person with a concealed-handgun permit to carry concealed in a restaurant or club that serves alcohol.

    2. A bill to allow a concealed handgun permit holder to carry on K-12 school grounds.

    A recent Attorney General's Opinion confirmed that Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies have the rights above based on SB 776 passing.

    As a concealed handgun permit holder, I should have the same rights as an off-duty and untrained state lawyer.

    Please let me know what you are going to do.


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    This is my Reply to John Miller (D)



    John,

    We always do differ on Gun laws. I have attached the Opinion for you to

    read.

    Also I absolutely disagree with you; a Lawyer is no better that me or you.

    If they can carry a Concealed handgun in a restaurant so also should we be

    able to. If they don't have to Disarm to drop there Child off in the

    School, neither should you or I.

    Let me be very clear on this matter, I carry my Handgun EVERYWHERE I go. I

    just have to carry it openly in a restaurant that serves alcohol, at our

    schools I just can't get out of the Car when dropping off my Grandchild at

    School that means I have to unload the gun with kids around and lock it in

    my trunk to take my Grandchild into the school... It's much safer in its

    holster where it stays out of sight until it's needed.

    In your view a Lawyer then is a "Super Citizen" that has more Rights than

    I?!! Respectfully, that is very presumptuous on your part. I design

    systems for the federal government have a Secret Government Security

    Clearance and have hours and hours of tactical training (And am an ordained

    Minister too) although my primary Job secular job is a Federal Government

    contract. What if I where to be kidnapped by Terrorists or Killed by a

    Crack-head or other criminal?

    Again what makes a Lawyer more important than me?

    Please respond to each point above so I know where we stand.
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  3. #3
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    A police department secretary is a part of the law enforcement department also but can't carry a concealed handgun without a CHP. The attorney doesn't have arrest authority any more than the secretary. Does the fact that they are an officer of the courtmake them any better? I don't think so.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



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    Good job Freeflight! You stay after him and don't let him get away with that elitist stuff. A lawyer's life is not worth more than mine or my family's. And I don't buy the argument that a lawyer is in more danger than the normal Joe just because he prosecutes criminals (there are far more out there that defend them!).

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Freeflight wrote:
    David:

    I have received your e-mail asking me to allow concealed handgun permit holders the same carry rights as a Commonwealth Attorney......

    For those reasons, I do not believe private citizens should have the same rights as a Commonwealth Attorney in this area....


    John Miller
    Well on the one hand at least he took the time tosen an e-mail that was responsive to David's e-mail.

    On the other hand.... ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!!!! How is it that a delegate or state senator presumes to be able to dole out rights???Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson are probably spinning in their graves.

    O.K. Mr. Miller, repeat after me:

    I am not God, therefore I do not presume to infringe on God given rights!I am not God, therefore I do not presume to infringe on God given rights!I am not God, therefore I do not presume to infringe on God given rights!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Can anyone post a link to the AG opinion. I likewise was unable to find it on the AG's web site.

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    I received a reply from my Democrat State Senator Charles Colgan and he said he believesthe existing lawsrelative to carrying weapons are adequate.He said he had the right to change his mind but at this time he is not planning to vote for any changes.

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    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    Senator Tommy Norment responded to my email on his nice letterhead....advising that he "voted in favor of this legislation because the Code of Virginia classifies Commonwealth's Attorneys and their assistants in the law enforcement departments for their city or county. Because Commonwealth's Attorneys and their assistants face unique threats to their saftey as a result of their work and because of their powers for law enforcement and arrest as noted in the Code of Virginia, it makes sense for them to have the same rights as law enforcement officers."

    OK, let's examine his logic:

    Didn't know of his assertion that the Code of VA classifies both CA's "and their assistants" as law enforcement. Hmmm, VCDL might need to peruse this.

    "Same rights as law enforcement officers"....so, he implies that unlike you or I, a law enforcement officer, a CA or "his assistant" can carry concealed in a bar or restaurant, and consume alcohol? Sorta like the Deputy Chief down in Newport News, eh?

    I'll be responding to Senator Norment accordingly....reccommend if y'all get a similar response, please respond and think we should all let VCDL know...

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    brokerbh wrote:
    Can anyone post a link to the AG opinion. I likewise was unable to find it on the AG's web site.


    I put it on my site... there goes my anonymity and it's perfectly okay... I am proud of what I am and believe...




    http://david.thevaughts.net/2_AG%20O...CA%20carry.pdf

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    apollosmom wrote:
    Senator Tommy Norment responded to my email on his nice letterhead....advising that he "voted in favor of this legislation because the Code of Virginia classifies Commonwealth's Attorneys and their assistants in the law enforcement departments for their city or county. Because Commonwealth's Attorneys and their assistants face unique threats to their saftey as a result of their work and because of their powers for law enforcement and arrest as noted in the Code of Virginia, it makes sense for them to have the same rights as law enforcement officers."

    OK, let's examine his logic:

    Didn't know of his assertion that the Code of VA classifies both CA's "and their assistants" as law enforcement. Hmmm, VCDL might need to peruse this.

    "Same rights as law enforcement officers"....so, he implies that unlike you or I, a law enforcement officer, a CA or "his assistant" can carry concealed in a bar or restaurant, and consume alcohol? Sorta like the Deputy Chief down in Newport News, eh?

    I'll be responding to Senator Norment accordingly....reccommend if y'all get a similar response, please respond and think we should all let VCDL know...
    I received the same reply. There are Assistant Commonwealth Attorneys who do the nitty gritty work of prosecuting offenders. I think these folks are the "assistants" referenced, as opposed to secretaries, paralegals, etc.

    I don't know what kind of firearms training these folks have.

    Carry concealed into a restaurant that serves alcohol and forgo the option to drink alcohol? Did you drive to the restaurant? Are you going to drive home? Makes sense to me. The legislation (for ordinary folks) to carry concealed into bars and restaurants was vetoed by Gov Kaine.

    There wasn't any indication that the Deputy Chief was armed.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Freeflight wrote:
    brokerbh wrote:
    Can anyone post a link to the AG opinion. I likewise was unable to find it on the AG's web site.
    I put it on my site... there goes my anonymity and it's perfectly okay... I am proud of what I am and believe...

    http://david.thevaughts.net/2_AG%20O...CA%20carry.pdf
    It appears that this opinion is not an "official opinion" of the Attorney General, although I was unaware of any kinds of opinons other than "official". All the "official" opinions seem to be available on the web site for the Office of the Attorney General of Virginia.

    The letter linked above does not start out like the others with the statement "I am responding to your request for an official advisory opinion..." and it is also not signed by the Attorney General, but rather a senior staff attorney.

    And to be a little cynical... it appears to me that nobody really pays any attention to the Attorney General opinions anyway. In opinion #07-027, April 6, 2007, the Attorney General states explicitly that it is his opinion that existing law provides that the use of personal information (names, addresses, etc.) of Concealed Handgun Permit holders is limited to law-enforcement personnel for investigative purposes, yet every Circuit Court Clerk in my area hands out this private information to the newspapers for regular publication like cotton candy at the county fair.

    Apparently he can opine all he wants, but nobody really seems to change any courses of action based on that opinion.

    TFred

  12. #12
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Firearms Training may be sorely needed.

    Check out this video showing the prosecutor handling the murder weapon in the Missionary Trial in Chesapeake.

    http://www.wvec.com/video/index.html?nvid=311963
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  13. #13
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    Guess she doesn't like that thumb!

  14. #14
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    Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Firearms Training may be sorely needed.

    Check out this video showing the prosecutor handling the murder weapon in the Missionary Trial in Chesapeake.

    http://www.wvec.com/video/index.html?nvid=311963
    I guess the reporter has already convicted the defendant. She says the jury has the responsibility to determine the defendant's fate; but then she also says the jury has the responsibility to bring justice for the victims' families.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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