Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Question about keeping laws or court cases with you

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    242

    Post imported post

    I see a lot of threads with people saying that they keep the law on them most of the time. In case they get confronted by LEO's or other citizens. Is there a list of Virginia laws + local ordinances that I should keep with me, as well as court cases regarding concealed carry, open carry, or keeping a safe in your vehicle for the times when you can't legally carry a weapon [court house, school etc]

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    VCDL http://www.vcdl.org has a link on their site to .pdf files of various laws & Attorney General Opinions, if you are interested in a convenient source. VCDL usually has at their gun show table a small pocket-sized card with basic info. I always was told that was education for the handgun owners, not something to shove under the nose of the cop and tell him to read it.

    My take is that you are never going to win a case on the street, and the more papers you pull out of your pockets to "prove" the cop is wrong the more the cop will dig in his heels. If there was a chance you would not get a free ride in the back seat, pulling out and shuffling papers is perhaps the best way to kill that chance.

    I know that lawyering up and settling it in court costs $$$. But for most circumstances you get to go home and wait there for your trial date(s), and can go home each day after your case in adjourned until the day the judge/jury tells you if your defense lawyer was any good.

    I wholeheartedly support folks knowing what the laws/regulations are, and of course following them to the letter. But I do not see any advantage to carrying around a set of papers to wave at a cop. (Ask the Manassas 7 if it worked for them. Ask Danbus how many different laws/regulations he would need to carry, and if having them would shorten the time he is rousted about.)

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * edited to add - several folks on OCDO have copied Ed's wonderful info business cards (contact him via PM for details). Those cards are a great education tool to give to the general public about OC-ing. I find myself giving out a card or 2 a few times a week.

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Va, ,
    Posts
    623

    Post imported post

    Here's a few sections of Va code of interest

    15.2-915

    15.2-915.2

    15.2-915.3

    15.2-1209.1

    18.2-53.1

    18.2-282

    18.2-283

    18.2-287.01

    18.2-287.4

    18.2-308

    18.2-308.1

    18.2-308.2

    18.2-308.3

    Atty gen opinion 02-082 (opinion #082 of 2002)
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bottom of Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    418

    Post imported post

    To play devil's advocate: If a citizen challenges my right to OC, I will attempt to educate him, but if he doesn't trust me to tell him that it's legal, then why would he trust what I'm carrying in my pocket? Again, just devil's advocate, but would you trust someone who said "gimme all your money, there's a law that says on the 1st Sunday of every other month, I get all your money...I've got it typed up right here!!!" ???

    If a cop challenges OC, I'm highly doubtful that he'll give much merit to a law you carry in your pocket. If he's challenging you, it's likely because he already thinks he knows the law.



    I could be wrong, and even if I'm not, I'm thinking anyone would be hard pressed to come up with a way that carrying some cited code would ever be a bad thing, I'm just throwing out reasons why it might not necessarily be an ace in the hole.

    That said, the funny thing about OC is that there is no "law" granting it. Had a fun discussion with my dad when I started open carrying at 19. He wanted me to show him where it was legal and all I could do was say that there was no where that it was illegal. I'm still not sure if he's convinced, but I don't care, he hates guns anyway...

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    That said, the funny thing about OC is that there is no "law" granting it. Had a fun discussion with my dad when I started open carrying at 19. He wanted me to show him where it was legal and all I could do was say that there was no where that it was illegal. I'm still not sure if he's convinced, but I don't care, he hates guns anyway...
    That's the sort of mindset that makes me want to .

    [short legal discourse] Virginia law, like that of most of the civilized world except for France, is based on the notion of listing the things you are not allowed to do. [/short legal discourse]

    However, those who question the "appropriateness" of some behavior or action generally begin their part of the discussion by saying: "Show me where it's legal to (__)."

    No can do. Not possible to show you a law that says you can do X when theCode of Virginia of 1950, as amendedconsists entirely of statements of what you are not allowed to do.

    Cops look at what you are doing and run a quick search in their minds to see if what you are doing rings a bell as being on the list of "not allowed to" laws. If they think your behavior is not allowed, they will detain/arrest you so they can do a more formal search for just the right subsection to cite showing that in fact what you were doing was in fact on the list of prohibited acts. Sometimes it takes prolonged consultations with a Magistrate and the Commonwealth's Attorney to see if there is some subsection that comes remotely close to prohibitting what you were doing. In the meantime, you get to sit in a cell and ponder who your next BFF might be.

    If luck is on your side and the cops and prosecution team cannot find a law against whatever you were doing, you will eventually be released. But it does not end there - someone is going to contact their Delegate/Senator with the "There ought to be a law against (__)." And the next thing you know, VCDL is sending out an Alert saying we need to show up at some public hearing to voice our opposition to a proposal to create a new law that is designed to punish people for violating an alrealy existing law.

    Remember, folks - gun control is not about guns, but about control.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •