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Terrorist Attack in India

Swampbeast

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http://www.newsherald.com/articles/mumbai_70046___article.html/armed_india.html

There's a nagging question about the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India: Why doesn't this happen more often?

It was a relatively low-tech operation - as few as 10 men armed only with guns and grenades - aimed at soft targets - two hotels, a train station and a Jewish center - that produced spectacularly bloody results: nearly 200 killed, more than 300 wounded and dozens of hostages over three days last week. This was indeed terrorism, but at its most basic level it was mass murder, similar to a shooting spree at a school, restaurant or post office. However, instead of being the work of a lone crazed gunman, the India massacre was on a larger scale, well-organized and apparently politically motivated.

If a disgruntled worker or mentally imbalanced person can walk into a public area and fire indiscriminately, then an orchestrated attack of a higher magnitude would seem to be low-hanging fruit for terrorists. It certainly would be more practical than acquiring a nuclear or biological weapon, or even hijacking airliners and flying them into buildings.

Thankfully, such Mumbai-style attacks are extremely rare worldwide, and so far the United States has been spared. It can't be because no one has contemplated it. We're certainly not giving anyone ideas by raising the issue. Author Tom Clancy used simultaneous terror attacks on several U.S. shopping malls as a plot device in his 2003 novel "The Teeth of the Tiger" (after previously envisioning, years before 9/11, a 747 being flown into the U.S. Capitol).

The possibility of such violence is chilling not just because it occurs in familiar places where we take our safety and comfort for granted, but because there's no technological solution to prevent it. It can't be stopped by biometric IDs, X-rayed luggage or other "homeland security" bureaucratic apparatus. Short of creating a lockdown police state, with armed guards on every corner and metal detectors at every entrance (which would be virtually impossible in a country the size of the United States anyway), the only way to prevent a Mumbai (or Clancy) kind of attack is to have foreknowledge of the event. That's a tall order, especially when dealing with decentralized terrorist cells that are the proverbial needles in haystacks.

Besides, the cure threatens to become worse than the disease - a rollback in civil liberties that fundamentally changes the character of a free and open society. We benefit so much more from it than we suffer from its vulnerabilities.

To that end, if there's a lesson to be gleaned from the India massacre, it's that individuals ultimately are responsible for their personal safety. India has strict gun control laws that make it virtually impossible for private citizens to arm themselves, so they rely on armed professionals to protect them. However, there were reports from Mumbai that policemen at the train station failed to use their weapons to stop the terrorists as they gunned down innocents. How many innocent lives could have been saved had the terrorists immediately faced return fire from an armed populace?

Maybe that's why no one has attempted such an attack on U.S. soil. They know that many Americans would shoot back.





Gun control seems to be working very well in India. See, the cops will always be there to protect you!
 

Doug Huffman

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What fraction of people other than the instigators present at an incident might be armed? Ten percent might be a good estimate for a state but that might be reduced in a large metropolitan area where these things seem to happen. So 2-1/2%, two or three of a hundred worried that the security theater would turn on them as BG terrorists for not being appropriately dressed. Two or three of a hundred worried about legal niceties of third party defense. Two or three trained by the cops that the most important thing is to go home after work.

Nope. For now we are effectively disarmed relative to a terrorist attack on a metropolitan site.
 

4armed Architect

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Swampbeast wrote:
http://www.newsherald.com/articles/mumbai_70046___article.html/armed_india.html

There's a nagging question about the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India: Why doesn't this happen more often?

snip
I believe that we(the world) can expect to see much more of this, given the "success" of the operation.

I bet the terrorists were surprised by how easy it really was. Let's see, 10 can take out almost 200. Hmmmm..... Interesting business model.

Considering there may be more than a million like-minded terrorists, do the math.
 

Orygunner

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4armed Architect wrote:
Swampbeast wrote:
http://www.newsherald.com/articles/mumbai_70046___article.html/armed_india.html

There's a nagging question about the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India: Why doesn't this happen more often?

snip
I believe that we(the world) can expect to see much more of this, given the "success" of the operation.

I bet the terrorists were surprised by how easy it really was. Let's see, 10 can take out almost 200. Hmmmm..... Interesting business model.

Considering there may be more than a million like-minded terrorists, do the math.
I think I mentioned this in the other thread on the terrorist attack in India, if they try anything like that here,I'll bet they'll do it in one of the "gun-free" cities like Washington DC or Chicago.

Even if they did pick one of those cities, wouldn't it be a hoot if some gang-banger stepped up and saved the day?

"Yeah, man, I saw this guy whip out an AK and some grenades? An I saw that thing on the news what happened ovah there in Indiana or some s#!t, and thought 'Hell no!' So I whipped out my Glock .40 and capped that mofo afore he could pull that s#!t in my 'hood!"

...Capped that hater... Jihad my a$$... ;)
...Orygunner...
 

DonTreadOnMe

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Orygunner wrote:
4armed Architect wrote:
Swampbeast wrote:
http://www.newsherald.com/articles/mumbai_70046___article.html/armed_india.html

There's a nagging question about the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India: Why doesn't this happen more often?

snip
I believe that we(the world) can expect to see much more of this, given the "success" of the operation.

I bet the terrorists were surprised by how easy it really was. Let's see, 10 can take out almost 200. Hmmmm..... Interesting business model.

Considering there may be more than a million like-minded terrorists, do the math.
I think I mentioned this in the other thread on the terrorist attack in India, if they try anything like that here,I'll bet they'll do it in one of the "gun-free" cities like Washington DC or Chicago.

Even if they did pick one of those cities, wouldn't it be a hoot if some gang-banger stepped up and saved the day?

"Yeah, man, I saw this guy whip out an AK and some grenades? An I saw that thing on the news what happened ovah there in Indiana or some s#!t, and thought 'Hell no!' So I whipped out my Glock .40 and capped that mofo afore he could pull that s#!t in my 'hood!"

...Capped that hater... Jihad my a$$... ;)
...Orygunner...

If your going to dream....how about having a would be jihadist picking Va and having the 'good fortune' of crashing an open carry dinner with the expectation of finding sheep?

I am sure someone would be kind enough to send him to his martyrdom.

I am sure the drive-by media would have heart burn trying to figure out how to best spin that news bit.

;)
 

SlackwareRobert

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Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that all the attacks on US soil
have been in 'gun free' areas of the country. NYC, DC, fed buildings, and schools.
Yes Ft. Dix has guns, but they are locked up with minimal access, and there
wasn't an attack, courts said so.:shock:

You think that the 'responders' would have learned from the russian school attack.
With terrorists, sitting doing nothing is letting more people die.
Attack and keep attacking till stopped is the only solution. This would have
indicated the small number of individuals much sooner.
Forcing mobility, cuts down on armament, and cover. You have a very hard time
dodging fire, reloading an assault rifle, and control a hostge at the same time.
Regarless of hollywood, you don't pull granade pins with your teath.
 

Doug Huffman

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I think that was my point.
For now we are effectively disarmed relative to a terrorist attack on a metropolitan site.

SlackwareRobert wrote:
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that all the attacks on US soil
have been in 'gun free' areas of the country. NYC, DC, fed buildings, and schools.
Yes Ft. Dix has guns, but they are locked up with minimal access, and there
wasn't an attack, courts said so.:shock:

You think that the 'responders' would have learned from the russian school attack.
With terrorists, sitting doing nothing is letting more people die.
Attack and keep attacking till stopped is the only solution. This would have
indicated the small number of individuals much sooner.
Forcing mobility, cuts down on armament, and cover. You have a very hard time
dodging fire, reloading an assault rifle, and control a hostge at the same time.
Regarless of hollywood, you don't pull granade pins with your teath.
 

deepdiver

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SFCRetired wrote:
What is scary to me is that we have no mechanism for detecting such attacks in their planning stages. This mechanism is called HUMINT (HUMan INTelligence) and refers to agents infiltrating these terrorist groups. It was crippled years ago when someone in the higher levels of government decided that spy satellites could effectively replace HUMINT.
The name you are looking for is Jimmy Carter, our past-president befriender of dictators and terrorists worldwide.

We certainly have worked on rebuilding HUMINT since at least 9/11 and we certainly have had some difficulty doing so. However, it will be decades from now before we find out how far it extends and how effective it has actually been. Just like intel operations from WWII which have come to light in the last decades, I'll be an old man before we know with any degree of surety.
 

Orygunner

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This editorial cartoon says it all...


Free.jpg



...Orygunner...
 

Dustin

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This is NOTHING compared to the 700 Dead a month in Mexico righ tnow. Since Mexicans can't have anything more than 22. They have no way to defend themselves from the Drug Cartels.
 

KBCraig

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deepdiver wrote:
The name you are looking for is Jimmy Carter, our past-president befriender of dictators and terrorists worldwide.

We certainly have worked on rebuilding HUMINT since at least 9/11 and we certainly have had some difficulty doing so.
It's hard to build a reliable HUMINT network when your foreign policy is constantly creating new enemies, and encouraging even our allies to hedge their bets.
 
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