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Thread: OC vs CC an Informal Poll from a perspective

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    Here is something that you all may find interesting, I deal with a lot of different types of criminals during my day at work and curiosity has gotten the best of me from the criminal perspective on the debate of OC vs CC.

    I have been posing the question over the past few weeks here at work to various random offender's and I was a little suprised by my results and the OC crowd may be happy with what they hear and if nothing else give everyone some food for thought.

    I have found that through my questioning that if someone wants to rob you and you are OC, the offenders I have surveyed are most likely not going to pick you if it is a random crime unless they are really desperate. The Concensus on OC from thier perspective was that, unless they know you or have been following you around and they know you are always armed and they want to rob you they will want to get the drop on you and suprise you and shoot first and ask questions later. But this was all based on thier knowledge of you and how much they had to gain by actually comitting the act.

    they also stated that they felt that either way OC or CC if they knew you were armed they were most likely going to leave you alone. All criminals for one reason or another felt that for them CC was always the best choice on the way to carry. I am guessing that they say this becasue none of them I surveyed had a CC permit and 9 out of 10 were not legally allowed to posess a firearm, but could always obtain one through thier street contacts.

    anyways, I just thought I would throw in this little nugget of info for everyone to think about. For me it sounds like you can't go wrong as long as you carry, weather it's OC or CC, its an all around crime deterrent.



    Now if some of our legislators would just see the light what a perfect world it would be, especially when it comes right from the mouth of the criminal.

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    Sounds like some great results from your impromptu survey. I'd suggest also asking the criminals if the intended target's perceived "situational awareness" weighs heavily on their decision to victimize a person. If the intended target appears to be very aware of their surroundings, notices the criminal at a distance & watches them, etc.

    If they did decide to attack someone they knew was armed, would the person's awareness level deter them from trying (or encourage them)?

    There must be multiple factors considered, but it sounds like for the most part they'd rather pick an easy target that can't fight back rather than someone they know is armed.

    Thanks!

    ...Orygunner...

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    Wow. Interesting results. A good reason to stay armed, nonetheless.

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    Here is something that you all may find interesting, I deal with a lot of different types of criminals during my day at work and curiosity has gotten the best of me from the criminal perspective on the debate of OC vs CC.

    I have been posing the question over the past few weeks here at work to various random offender's and I was a little suprised by my results and the OC crowd may be happy with what they hear and if nothing else give everyone some food for thought.

    I have found that through my questioning that if someone wants to rob you and you are OC, the offenders I have surveyed are most likely not going to pick you if it is a random crime unless they are really desperate. The Concensus on OC from thier perspective was that, unless they know you or have been following you around and they know you are always armed and they want to rob you they will want to get the drop on you and suprise you and shoot first and ask questions later. But this was all based on thier knowledge of you and how much they had to gain by actually comitting the act.

    they also stated that they felt that either way OC or CC if they knew you were armed they were most likely going to leave you alone. All criminals for one reason or another felt that for them CC was always the best choice on the way to carry. I am guessing that they say this becasue none of them I surveyed had a CC permit and 9 out of 10 were not legally allowed to posess a firearm, but could always obtain one through thier street contacts.

    anyways, I just thought I would throw in this little nugget of info for everyone to think about. For me it sounds like you can't go wrong as long as you carry, weather it's OC or CC, its an all around crime deterrent.



    Now if some of our legislators would just see the light what a perfect world it would be, especially when it comes right from the mouth of the criminal.
    SCI-Smithfield, eh? I did my "tours of duty" at Camp Hill and Graterford. 10 years at each SCI as a correction officer. Retired as a Lieutenant. I've declined CO positions in Arizona and California. Life is too short to deal with additional stress!!

    During my years of conversations with felons not associated with a gang, they claimed to strongly avoid getting shot, either by an armed citizen or the police. Felons I spoke with said they searched for an easy mark to prey on or a simple smash and grab.

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    not SCI smithfield, there is no such thing.... I work at a Federal Facility

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    not SCI smithfield, there is no such thing....
    I guess you just learned something new today:

    http://www.cor.state.pa.us/smithfield/site/default.asp

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    I live in Smithfield, Not in Huntington where SCI Smithfield is.



    Although I did not know about SCI Smithfield, I really don't keep up with the state joint's. I am only familiar with the ones around me Greene and Fayette

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    I've always been curious as to what result would turn up on a formal study conducted at the nation's prisons of the effect on criminals that carrying weapons would have on their behavior. A questionnaire passed around to each criminal with questions identifying what type of crime they were incarcerated for, victim selection, would knowing their victim was armed have deterred them, etc. With scientifically acceptable methodology, it would be a profound bit of evidence to aid in the argument for the carrying of weapons by citizens; especially if put against the effect of police on criminal behavior. Food for thought, that; maybe a call to John Lott would be in order?

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    Blkwdw86 wrote:
    I've always been curious as to what result would turn up on a formal study conducted at the nation's prisons of the effect on criminals that carrying weapons would have on their behavior. A questionnaire passed around to each criminal with questions identifying what type of crime they were incarcerated for, victim selection, would knowing their victim was armed have deterred them, etc. With scientifically acceptable methodology, it would be a profound bit of evidence to aid in the argument for the carrying of weapons by citizens; especially if put against the effect of police on criminal behavior. Food for thought, that; maybe a call to John Lott would be in order?
    That would be interesting to see

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    It just goes for proof here and everywhere that OC'ing is best over all, although I do CC, its not by choice,my state is not a Gold Star State , and OC is legal with restrictions due to having a CC permit to carry you weapon in transport.

    So I've heard of alot of my fellow citizens here in Al. facing all types of extreme harassment by LEO's because they decided to open carry, in turn there CC permit was taken from them and the sheriff as yet to give it back, living the legal citizen of Alabama defenseless against criminals, unless of course he/she is going to walk everywhere they go. We have someone in al. currently working to make Al. a gold star state so we have our choice, but until this happens I will just have to CC unfortunately. I've heard everything about OC from anti OC'ing people to anti-gun people, this is not the wild west, is it that bad you have to carry a gun these days, to guns kill people, and peace is the way, bla bla bla, yep whatever, I'd rather be alive and have protected myself under our second amendment rights, then become a picture in the obituary section of our newspaper. Pro-gun and Pro OC and CC forever

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    It just goes for proof here and everywhere that OC'ing is best over all, although I do CC, its not by choice,my state is not a Gold Star State , and OC is legal with restrictions due to having a CC permit to carry you weapon in transport.

    So I've heard of alot of my fellow citizens here in Al. facing all types of extreme harassment by LEO's because they decided to open carry, in turn there CC permit was taken from them and the sheriff as yet to give it back, living the legal citizen of Alabama defenseless against criminals, unless of course he/she is going to walk everywhere they go. We have someone in al. currently working to make Al. a gold star state so we have our choice, but until this happens I will just have to CC unfortunately. I've heard everything about OC from anti OC'ing people to anti-gun people, this is not the wild west, is it that bad you have to carry a gun these days, to guns kill people, and peace is the way, bla bla bla, yep whatever, I'd rather be alive and have protected myself under our second amendment rights, then become a picture in the obituary section of our newspaper. Pro-gun and Pro OC and CC forever

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    Well, at least if they get me it is a capital offence since they had to do all that planning.

    I do hope they also are better shots than our 'protectors', or they will also have
    some serious holes themselves to deal with.

    Now follow it up with questions about attacking policemen they see OC'ing.
    Would like to know if it is the 'gun' or the 'badge' they would attack them for.




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    GWbiker wrote:

    During my years of conversations with felons not associated with a gang, they claimed to strongly avoid getting shot, either by an armed citizen or the police. Felons I spoke with said they searched for an easy mark to prey on or a simple smash and grab.
    Yea ABC had an hour long tv show about the 2A a while back. They had video interviews with a dozen Convicts who all said that what they feared most in home burlgaries, or any robberies was an armed citizen. NOT an Armed Cop. They said all they had to do was turn their backs to cops to avoid being shot. But They thought that civilians would shoot them anyway, anywhere.

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    Yea ABC had an hour long tv show about the 2A a while back. They had video interviews with a dozen Convicts who all said that what they feared most in home burlgaries, or any robberies was an armed citizen. NOT an Armed Cop. They said all they had to do was turn their backs to cops to avoid being shot. But They thought that civilians would shoot them anyway, anywhere.

    LOL very true, cause most armed citizens don't know that there not allow to shot at someone with there back turned. Also another thing, I don't know if this goes for all states or not, but in AL. if you wake up lets say in the middle of the night, cause you heard a noise and you grabbed your gun as your leaving your bedroom and you see the robber/potential killer leaving out the door of your house and his back is turned towards you, you are not suppose to shoot,lol. That's the damn stupidest thing I've ever heard. What the law says about it, your material stuff is not worth taking a human life, well the criminal should be glad that some things the law does for them like protecting them from being shot in the back if they change there mind or if there done taking sh*t out of your house and leaving and you come out and see them, you better let them go, or you could face serious punishments, is that not the one of the most stupidest things you guys have ever heard of. Don't shoot them and try to drag them back n the house either, wrong answer also, csi, which really exist, its not just a TV show, they can a actually tell well the gun was fired, where the bullet entered and exited and all that crap. If you really want to catch the guy, you better be fast with handcuffs, zip ties, rope or ductape or something of that manner, pepper spray or shock the b*t*h with one of those taser guns or wands and then place him under citizens arrest, read him his rights as stated in the law, then call law enforcement to have him picked up and committed to the nearest jailhouse. Now if your not in physical shape or something is keeping you from catching the guy and you want to pursue the suspect but can't , call the authority's and described as much as you can as quick as you can and try and watch wear the guy is running or what type of vehicle there getting into. Note: This is not in any manner legal advise whatsoever, nore should it be taken that way. I am not a attorney, and any decision you make is solely your own decision and your responsibility. This is just merely my opinion for informational perpuses only. Thank you

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    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    Yea ABC had an hour long tv show about the 2A a while back. They had video interviews with a dozen Convicts who all said that what they feared most in home burlgaries, or any robberies was an armed citizen. NOT an Armed Cop. They said all they had to do was turn their backs to cops to avoid being shot. But They thought that civilians would shoot them anyway, anywhere.

    LOL very true, cause most armed citizens don't know that there not allow to shot at someone with there back turned. Also another thing, I don't know if this goes for all states or not, but in AL. if you wake up lets say in the middle of the night, cause you heard a noise and you grabbed your gun as your leaving your bedroom and you see the robber/potential killer leaving out the door of your house and his back is turned towards you, you are not suppose to shoot,lol. That's the damn stupidest thing I've ever heard. What the law says about it, your material stuff is not worth taking a human life, well the criminal should be glad that some things the law does for them like protecting them from being shot in the back if they change there mind or if there done taking sh*t out of your house and leaving and you come out and see them, you better let them go, or you could face serious punishments, is that not the one of the most stupidest things you guys have ever heard of. Don't shoot them and try to drag them back n the house either, wrong answer also, csi, which really exist, its not just a TV show, they can a actually tell well the gun was fired, where the bullet entered and exited and all that crap. If you really want to catch the guy, you better be fast with handcuffs, zip ties, rope or ductape or something of that manner, pepper spray or shock the b*t*h with one of those taser guns or wands and then place him under citizens arrest, read him his rights as stated in the law, then call law enforcement to have him picked up and committed to the nearest jailhouse. Now if your not in physical shape or something is keeping you from catching the guy and you want to pursue the suspect but can't , call the authority's and described as much as you can as quick as you can and try and watch wear the guy is running or what type of vehicle there getting into. Note: This is not in any manner legal advise whatsoever, nore should it be taken that way. I am not a attorney, and any decision you make is solely your own decision and your responsibility. This is just merely my opinion for informational perpuses only. Thank you
    This is not always true. There have been a number of incidences where a BG was shot in the back or rear side area and the shooter was not held at fault. Too many variables to have such a blanket law.

    For example, say you have opened fire at a deadly threat and as you know, you fire until the threat ceases to exist. In the process, the perp turns and one of your shots goes in under his shoulder blade. Or suppose he has come into your home and while rifling through some things in one of your rooms, he lays his gun down. You come upon him, he sees you, you see him and his gun laying on a table behind him. He quickly turns to pick up his gun. Are you going to wait until he turns to fire at you or are you going to open fire? Just too many variables to consider in an extreme situation.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    This is not always true. There have been a number of incidences where a BG was shot in the back or rear side area and the shooter was not held at fault. Too many variables to have such a blanket law.

    For example, say you have opened fire at a deadly threat and as you know, you fire until the threat ceases to exist. In the process, the perp turns and one of your shots goes in under his shoulder blade. Or suppose he has come into your home and while rifling through some things in one of your rooms, he lays his gun down. You come upon him, he sees you, you see him and his gun laying on a table behind him. He quickly turns to pick up his gun. Are you going to wait until he turns to fire at you or are you going to open fire? Just too many variables to consider in an extreme situation.
    Add into this mix that you may be in the act of firing (depressing the trigger) when the BG turns in a fraction of a second = shot in the back. Mass Ayoob has described this and used this condition as an effective/truthful defense testimony.

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    You know what guys, the last time I checked my arm and shoulderwould allow me to fire my gun backwards while I'm running. Granted it might notbe the best shots I have ever made but it can be done.

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    Lthrnck wrote:
    You know what guys, the last time I checked my arm and shoulderwould allow me to fire my gun backwards while I'm running. Granted it might notbe the best shots I have ever made but it can be done.
    Well then it is time to get back to the range and 'Practice" :?
    Although you might get some strange looks from the range operators on style.

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    For many of you posting in this forum, you have the ability to carry concealed. there are some of us that do not have that option due to our state laws. So openly carrying is our only way. I would rather have the ability to legally CC, but since I cannot legally do that, O-C is our only option.

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    That is correct.. Nutczak,

    We Buckeyes are pulling for all you Badgers to prevail in your quest to over come the tyranny and oppressive government which currently denies you the right to protect yourself, your family and your friends...

    !!!!.... GO BADGERS....!!!!



    I have heard they are tough little buggers ... so kick ass.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    For many of you posting in this forum, you have the ability to carry concealed. there are some of us that do not have that option due to our state laws. So openly carrying is our only way. I would rather have the ability to legally CC, but since I cannot legally do that, O-C is our only option.
    Well Nutczak , I hope you all are working on a patition to get the right to CC, until them be happy that you at least get to carry period, unlike DC, which only allows you to keep a firearm in your house and they just got that right here not to long ago. And Great Britian can't carry anymore, hell there not even allowed to have guns anymore not even in there houses. I love to carry concealed, would rather OC or rather have the choice, but at least I get to carry at least one way.

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