View Poll Results: Does Open Carry Deter Crime or Attact Crime?

Voters
106. You may not vote on this poll
  • Deter

    105 99.06%
  • Attract

    1 0.94%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Open Carry and Crime

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , Colorado, USA
    Posts
    65

    Post imported post

    Thoughts? Experiences?

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    Well, since I have begun OC I have caught more attention from police than criminals. . .

    Since 7/04/08 I have not been attacked, robbed or stabbed. . . I have been detained twice by police and treated like less than an average citizen (although not terribly so).

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Smyrna, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    153

    Post imported post

    I have noticed on 3 seperate occasions that my OC made specific people rapidly leave a store or restaraunt that I was patronizing. Based on their appearance, I can only assume that they thought I was a cop, and wanted to get out of where I was.



    Respectfully,

    Pol

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Theseus wrote:
    Well, since I have begun OC I have caught more attention from police than criminals. . .
    Me, too.

    But then I asked myself, "What's the difference?"

    As far as I'm concerned, a cop illegally detaining an OCer, unlawfully demandinghis/her ID, or threateningan OCeris committing an offense. That there is little in the way of statutes against it is an aberration, not proof that it isn't a crime.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    NavyLT wrote:
    snip....... The 1% might be the bank robbers or whatever, who will shoot the armed guy first.
    I really, really hate to see this hypothetical anti-OC argument used even for illustrative purposes. It deserves only status as an urban legion.

    For years I have asked for one (1) documented incident in modern times wherein a legally OCing, honest citizen (non-LEO, non-military combatant & non-security) was preemptively shot in any of the fifty states + D.C. So far, no takers. If somebody does find 1 or even 2, I suspect that rather than being anywhere near as high as 1%, the resultant per centage will have a decimal and a large number of zeros before the one (1)!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    420

    Post imported post

    I think your 1% figure may be too high. I tried to find the post from a few months back of a OCer, who was known at his bank and by his teller,in lineto conduct business when a BG came in the door, saw the OC'ers weapon, turned and left.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    oklaccer wrote:
    I think your 1% figure may be too high. I tried to find the post from a few months back of a OCer, who was known at his bank and by his teller,in lineto conduct business when a BG came in the door, saw the OC'ers weapon, turned and left.
    Try keywords Hopewell (the town), SunTrust (the bank), and December 26th.

    It may have got lost when the forum was moved to another server. Seems to me we lost a fair amount of stuff.

    There is a chance its still on the VCDL website.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1022854

    The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance .

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    Insufficient data.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    949

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    As far as I'm concerned, a cop illegally detaining an OCer, unlawfully demandinghis/her ID, or threateningan OCeris committing an offense.
    +1

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Virginia
    Posts
    188

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    oklaccer wrote:
    I think your 1% figure may be too high. I tried to find the post from a few months back of a OCer, who was known at his bank and by his teller,in lineto conduct business when a BG came in the door, saw the OC'ers weapon, turned and left.
    Try keywords Hopewell (the town), SunTrust (the bank), and December 26th.

    It may have got lost when the forum was moved to another server. Seems to me we lost a fair amount of stuff.

    There is a chance its still on the VCDL website.
    Wait a minute....this happened in Hopewell? Well that proves the stupidity of the robber right there....how could he be sure that the legendary crime-fighter, the Harbormaster of Hopewell would not be there with his statutorily authorized concealed weapon to thwart this heinous deed? That's like trying to rob a bank in Gotham City. Sheesh, what a dumbass. :quirky

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1022854

    The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance .

    Yata hey
    It seems to me that it would behove all businesses to report any suspecious behaviour like this to the authotities immediately. It would alert LE of possible pending criminal activities in the area. And who knows, it might result in an arrest of the BG, if a good desciption (what he was wearing) of the perp is given.

    Not to mention that there is still a radical foriegn element that desires to cause large scale death and destrution to our country. We shouldn't rely too heavily on Homeland Security and it's associated agencies for our protection.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1022854

    The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance .

    Yata hey
    It seems to me that it would behove all businesses to report any suspecious behaviour like this to the authotities immediately. It would alert LE of possible pending criminal activities in the area. And who knows, it might result in an arrest of the BG, if a good desciption (what he was wearing) of the perp is given.

    Not to mention that there is still a radical foriegn element that desires to cause large scale death and destrution to our country. We shouldn't rely too heavily on Homeland Security and it's associated agencies for our protection.
    That's the problem with you TF16 - you make too much sense.

    I'm sure that the bank had at least one surveillance camera that caught the activity - so why not give the info to LE.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    That's the problem with you TS16 - you make too much sense.
    I'm sorry.I can't help myself. It's an impulse thing, ya know.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    Task Force 16 wrote:
    That's the problem with you TS16 - you make too much sense.
    I'm sorry.I can't help myself. It's an impulse thing, ya know.
    Yeah! It is knee-jerk reactions and thinking like that that help this movement and that can't be tolerated!

    Consider yourself warned!

    I too feel that the bank should have notified the police. It would at least give us verifiable accounts of the situation and perhaps even documented proof OC can and had deterred crime.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Arlington, Texas, USA
    Posts
    234

    Post imported post

    It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.

    Criminals will ALWAYS by their nature either avoid any possible threat, or employ tactics designed to surprise, out-manuever, or overwhelm any potential threat. I am reflecting on the frequency of armored car robberies recently , and apparently ongoing throughout our modern history.

    That having been said - consider the apparent lack of much deterent against bank robberies. Perhaps the armored transport industry is pretty much "asleep" at the wheel. I don't know - but that occupation is getting very dangerous of late. The problem may be those securely holstered weapons can be overcome by sheer surprise and audacity. I guess this is something WE OC'ers should keep up front in our minds.

  17. #17
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    SANDCREEK wrote:
    It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.

    Criminals will ALWAYS by their nature either avoid any possible threat, or employ tactics designed to surprise, out-manuever, or overwhelm any potential threat. I am reflecting on the frequency of armored car robberies recently , and apparently ongoing throughout our modern history.

    That having been said - consider the apparent lack of much deterent against bank robberies. Perhaps the armored transport industry is pretty much "asleep" at the wheel. I don't know - but that occupation is getting very dangerous of late. The problem may be those securely holstered weapons can be overcome by sheer surprise and audacity. I guess this is something WE OC'ers should keep up front in our minds.
    This is true, and I think a lot of it is situational awareness. A big part of it though is the fact that the armored car is a known target. How often do YOU carry around hundreds of thousands of dollars in your car or on your person? I know I sure don't. A criminal sees an armored car, he KNOWS there is going to be plenty of reward for pulling off a holdup, and can plan around doing so, getting help, and now it's not the opportunistic criminal you're dealing with here, but a determined criminal with a plan of action, etc. Take an OCing individual that will not be a target for this type of criminal, but the type that preys on the weak and unaware individual. Who knows if this guy even is carrying any cash on him at all? Is it worth it to get into a gun battle with this person for a high possibility of no reward at all? Probably not.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    612

    Post imported post

    Well, from personal experience.. I have noticed a drastic drop in late night visits from local hoodlums to purchase certain herbal products from some of my tenants. I am a bit of a nightowl and walk the property with .45, maglite, cup o java..

    They tend to scatter like cockroaches..

    J

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    SANDCREEK wrote:
    It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen.* Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.
    America might have recovered from Clinton instead of furthering his legacy of monarchial executive power grabs, corruption, and general chicanery?

    Edit: No, wait, sorry, that could have happened is if the American people had elected Harry Browne in 2000. I didn't intend to give Bush undue credit.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    marshaul wrote:
    SANDCREEK wrote:
    It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.
    America might have recovered from Clinton instead of furthering his legacy of monarchial executive power grabs, corruption, and general chicanery?

    Edit: No, wait, sorry, that could have happened is if the American people had elected Harry Browne in 2000. I didn't intend to give Bush undue credit.
    +1

  21. #21
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912

    Post imported post

    I have to pick at the first paragraph of your response...

    If we hadn't gone into Iraq we...
    • Would have many young individuals at home, with their families and in good careers. Oh, and alive.
    • I would not know so many people with purple hearts.

    Just 2, non-political reasons.

    As to the other parts of your response, I'm guessing there have been a lot of armored car robberies? The armed handler isn't deterrent enough? Maybe... The guards are taught that if faced with an armed assailant, the money isn't worth a person getting hurt (the service and money are insured, right?).

    But also keep in mind, we (as a society) have punishments that are far worse for theft involving money than causing physical harm to a single person...

    SANDCREEK wrote:
    It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.

    Criminals will ALWAYS by their nature either avoid any possible threat, or employ tactics designed to surprise, out-manuever, or overwhelm any potential threat. I am reflecting on the frequency of armored car robberies recently , and apparently ongoing throughout our modern history.

    That having been said - consider the apparent lack of much deterent against bank robberies. Perhaps the armored transport industry is pretty much "asleep" at the wheel. I don't know - but that occupation is getting very dangerous of late. The problem may be those securely holstered weapons can be overcome by sheer surprise and audacity. I guess this is something WE OC'ers should keep up front in our minds.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    92

    Post imported post

    .'Raiding for Guns'. is what anti-open carry advocatesspeak of. Think the American West of 1877, or the1904 Herrero Rebellion. Most commonly, it was primitive people ambush-murdering people for theirWinchesters, Webleys, and Mausers.

    Since many guns today aresemiautomatics, that tactic is suicidally retarded; even the Taliban doesn't raid for guns. I had a vicious family stop messing with me, once they found out that I owned an SKS.









  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629

    Post imported post

    I know that when I see another person carrying a firearm for self defense, I can assume that person means business, and demands respect as a citizen and a human being. I can only imagine that criminals preying on their fellow citizens see it the same way. So I voted for deterrent.

    Carry on

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,170

    Post imported post

    I didn't vote becuase I am looking at this from a different angle. I feel it does attract crime, Specifically criminal behavior from the police officers that detain, arrest, andharrass the citizens that legally open carry. Not the type of crime I think you were going after.

  25. #25
    Regular Member GLOCKMAN40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    42

    Post imported post

    YES, i have always said that it is the way you carry yourself that makes the differnce , i open carry where i live when i can and when the weather lets me, and the way i carry myself you would think i was a cop, not that this is the look i am going for , its just the way i dress when i carry and thats all the time, i carry myself in a manner that lets people know that they are to take me serious in this world we live in, Im not trying to look like a cop or act as one , its just the way i Am. open carry is a way of life thatencompasses the whole being that should influences everything from your wardrobe to your social interactions. It should keep you in your daily task in condition yellow .Pol Mordreth wrote:
    I have noticed on 3 seperate occasions that my OC made specific people rapidly leave a store or restaraunt that I was patronizing. Based on their appearance, I can only assume that they thought I was a cop, and wanted to get out of where I was.



    Respectfully,

    Pol
    " A Well Regulated Militia, Being Necessary To The Security Of A Free State,
    The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms, Shall Not Be Infringed ".

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •