Equinox
Regular Member
imported post
Thoughts? Experiences?
Thoughts? Experiences?
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Open Carry and Crime
- Thread starter Equinox
- Start date
Theseus
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Well, since I have begun OC I have caught more attention from police than criminals. . .
Since 7/04/08 I have not been attacked, robbed or stabbed. . . I have been detained twice by police and treated like less than an average citizen (although not terribly so).
Well, since I have begun OC I have caught more attention from police than criminals. . .
Since 7/04/08 I have not been attacked, robbed or stabbed. . . I have been detained twice by police and treated like less than an average citizen (although not terribly so).
Pol Mordreth
Regular Member
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I have noticed on 3 seperate occasions that my OC made specific people rapidly leave a store or restaraunt that I was patronizing. Based on their appearance, I can only assume that they thought I was a cop, and wanted to get out of where I was.
Respectfully,
Pol
I have noticed on 3 seperate occasions that my OC made specific people rapidly leave a store or restaraunt that I was patronizing. Based on their appearance, I can only assume that they thought I was a cop, and wanted to get out of where I was.
Respectfully,
Pol
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Theseus wrote:
Me, too.
But then I asked myself, "What's the difference?"
As far as I'm concerned, a cop illegally detaining an OCer, unlawfully demandinghis/her ID, or threateningan OCeris committing an offense. That there is little in the way of statutes against it is an aberration, not proof that it isn't a crime.
Theseus wrote:
Me, too.
But then I asked myself, "What's the difference?"
As far as I'm concerned, a cop illegally detaining an OCer, unlawfully demandinghis/her ID, or threateningan OCeris committing an offense. That there is little in the way of statutes against it is an aberration, not proof that it isn't a crime.
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NavyLT wrote:
For years I have asked for one (1) documented incident in modern times wherein a legally OCing, honest citizen (non-LEO, non-military combatant & non-security) was preemptively shot in any of the fifty states + D.C. So far, no takers. If somebody does find 1 or even 2, I suspect that rather than being anywhere near as high as 1%, the resultant per centage will have a decimal and a large number of zeros before the one (1)!
Yata hey
NavyLT wrote:
I really, really hate to see this hypothetical anti-OC argument used even for illustrative purposes. It deserves only status as an urban legion.
For years I have asked for one (1) documented incident in modern times wherein a legally OCing, honest citizen (non-LEO, non-military combatant & non-security) was preemptively shot in any of the fifty states + D.C. So far, no takers. If somebody does find 1 or even 2, I suspect that rather than being anywhere near as high as 1%, the resultant per centage will have a decimal and a large number of zeros before the one (1)!
Yata hey
okiephlyer
Regular Member
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I think your 1% figure may be too high. I tried to find the post from a few months back of a OCer, who was known at his bank and by his teller,in lineto conduct business when a BG came in the door, saw the OC'ers weapon, turned and left.
I think your 1% figure may be too high. I tried to find the post from a few months back of a OCer, who was known at his bank and by his teller,in lineto conduct business when a BG came in the door, saw the OC'ers weapon, turned and left.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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oklaccer wrote:
Try keywords Hopewell (the town), SunTrust (the bank), and December 26th.
It may have got lost when the forum was moved to another server. Seems to me we lost a fair amount of stuff.
There is a chance its still on the VCDL website.
oklaccer wrote:
Try keywords Hopewell (the town), SunTrust (the bank), and December 26th.
It may have got lost when the forum was moved to another server. Seems to me we lost a fair amount of stuff.
There is a chance its still on the VCDL website.
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Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=1022854
The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance
.
Yata hey
Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=1022854
The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance
.Yata hey
Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
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Insufficient data.
Insufficient data.
Statesman
Regular Member
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Citizen wrote:
Citizen wrote:
+1
Virginian683
Regular Member
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Citizen wrote:
Wait a minute....this happened in Hopewell? Well that proves the stupidity of the robber right there....how could he be sure that the legendary crime-fighter, the Harbormaster of Hopewell would not be there with his statutorily authorized concealed weapon to thwart this heinous deed? That's like trying to rob a bank in Gotham City. Sheesh, what a dumbass. :quirky
Citizen wrote:
Wait a minute....this happened in Hopewell? Well that proves the stupidity of the robber right there....how could he be sure that the legendary crime-fighter, the Harbormaster of Hopewell would not be there with his statutorily authorized concealed weapon to thwart this heinous deed? That's like trying to rob a bank in Gotham City. Sheesh, what a dumbass. :quirky
Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
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Grapeshot wrote:
It seems to me that it would behove all businesses to report any suspecious behaviour like this to the authotities immediately. It would alert LE of possible pending criminal activities in the area. And who knows, it might result in an arrest of the BG, if a good desciption (what he was wearing) of the perp is given.
Not to mention that there is still a radical foriegn element that desires to cause large scale death and destrution to our country. We shouldn't rely too heavily on Homeland Security and it's associated agencies for our protection.
Grapeshot wrote:
Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=1022854
The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance
Yata hey
It seems to me that it would behove all businesses to report any suspecious behaviour like this to the authotities immediately. It would alert LE of possible pending criminal activities in the area. And who knows, it might result in an arrest of the BG, if a good desciption (what he was wearing) of the perp is given.
Not to mention that there is still a radical foriegn element that desires to cause large scale death and destrution to our country. We shouldn't rely too heavily on Homeland Security and it's associated agencies for our protection.
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Task Force 16 wrote:
I'm sure that the bank had at least one surveillance camera that caught the activity - so why not give the info to LE.
Yata hey
Task Force 16 wrote:
That's the problem with you TF16 - you make too much sense.Grapeshot wrote:Here is the Suntrust OC deterent event as reported by VCDL
http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=1022854
The primary problem with such non-events is that they are largely lacking in follow- up data i.e. no crime, no arrest, just peaceful existance
Yata hey
It seems to me that it would behove all businesses to report any suspecious behaviour like this to the authotities immediately. It would alert LE of possible pending criminal activities in the area. And who knows, it might result in an arrest of the BG, if a good desciption (what he was wearing) of the perp is given.
Not to mention that there is still a radical foriegn element that desires to cause large scale death and destrution to our country. We shouldn't rely too heavily on Homeland Security and it's associated agencies for our protection.
I'm sure that the bank had at least one surveillance camera that caught the activity - so why not give the info to LE.
Yata hey
Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
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I can't help myself. It's an impulse thing, ya know.
I'm sorry.
I can't help myself. It's an impulse thing, ya know.Theseus
Founder's Club Member
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Task Force 16 wrote:
Consider yourself warned!
I too feel that the bank should have notified the police. It would at least give us verifiable accounts of the situation and perhaps even documented proof OC can and had deterred crime.
Task Force 16 wrote:
Yeah! It is knee-jerk reactions and thinking like that that help this movement and that can't be tolerated!I'm sorry.
Consider yourself warned!
I too feel that the bank should have notified the police. It would at least give us verifiable accounts of the situation and perhaps even documented proof OC can and had deterred crime.
SANDCREEK
Regular Member
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It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.
Criminals will ALWAYS by their nature either avoid any possible threat, or employ tactics designed to surprise, out-manuever, or overwhelm any potential threat. I am reflecting on the frequency of armored car robberies recently , and apparently ongoing throughout our modern history.
That having been said - consider the apparent lack of much deterent against bank robberies. Perhaps the armored transport industry is pretty much "asleep" at the wheel. I don't know - but that occupation is getting very dangerous of late. The problem may be those securely holstered weapons can be overcome by sheer surprise and audacity. I guess this is something WE OC'ers should keep up front in our minds.
It's hard to document something that DIDN'T happen. Just like with all the condemnation President Bush has received for invading Iraq- we'll never know what chain of events might have unfolded during the last 5 years - had we NOT gone in there.
Criminals will ALWAYS by their nature either avoid any possible threat, or employ tactics designed to surprise, out-manuever, or overwhelm any potential threat. I am reflecting on the frequency of armored car robberies recently , and apparently ongoing throughout our modern history.
That having been said - consider the apparent lack of much deterent against bank robberies. Perhaps the armored transport industry is pretty much "asleep" at the wheel. I don't know - but that occupation is getting very dangerous of late. The problem may be those securely holstered weapons can be overcome by sheer surprise and audacity. I guess this is something WE OC'ers should keep up front in our minds.
compmanio365
Regular Member
imported post
SANDCREEK wrote:
SANDCREEK wrote:
This is true, and I think a lot of it is situational awareness. A big part of it though is the fact that the armored car is a known target. How often do YOU carry around hundreds of thousands of dollars in your car or on your person? I know I sure don't. A criminal sees an armored car, he KNOWS there is going to be plenty of reward for pulling off a holdup, and can plan around doing so, getting help, and now it's not the opportunistic criminal you're dealing with here, but a determined criminal with a plan of action, etc. Take an OCing individual that will not be a target for this type of criminal, but the type that preys on the weak and unaware individual. Who knows if this guy even is carrying any cash on him at all? Is it worth it to get into a gun battle with this person for a high possibility of no reward at all? Probably not.
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Well, from personal experience.. I have noticed a drastic drop in late night visits from local hoodlums to purchase certain herbal products from some of my tenants. I am a bit of a nightowl and walk the property with .45, maglite, cup o java..
They tend to scatter like cockroaches..
J
Well, from personal experience.. I have noticed a drastic drop in late night visits from local hoodlums to purchase certain herbal products from some of my tenants. I am a bit of a nightowl and walk the property with .45, maglite, cup o java..
They tend to scatter like cockroaches..
J
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
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SANDCREEK wrote:
Edit: No, wait, sorry, that could have happened is if the American people had elected Harry Browne in 2000. I didn't intend to give Bush undue credit.
SANDCREEK wrote:
America might have recovered from Clinton instead of furthering his legacy of monarchial executive power grabs, corruption, and general chicanery?
Edit: No, wait, sorry, that could have happened is if the American people had elected Harry Browne in 2000. I didn't intend to give Bush undue credit.