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Thread: Buying my Little Brother a Pistol..

  1. #1
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    I have a brother thats 19 and he wants a pistol for christmasi know he can't buy one from a FFA dealer but is it legal for me to buy it then sell it to him i don't know the details on that please inform me...do i have to get a bill of sell or what...

    Thanks Guys..

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    No, as that would be a straw purchase. You can buy a pistol and give it to him if you wish though.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Agreed, that is a straw purchase, which is illegal. You can buy it and give it as a gift legally with no problems. Your brother must still have it registered in HIS name.

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    Yep, gotta be a gift. Remember to point that out on the form 4473 to keep it legal.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    RaspberrySurprise, WARCHILD, Michigander

    Wrong, it's NOT a straw purchase!

    The only time it qualifies as a "Straw Purchase" is when the person can't legally own a gun.

    The law says nothing about money or the lack of money trading hands.

    If your brother is not a felon or have some other disqualifier hanging over his head, he's good to go.


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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I stand corrected. Thanks Doug, this is why I rely on you guys to cover my A$$. I guess I have yet to learn fully.....verify before opening my pie hole.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    This is a real touchy subject....BS if you ask me.

    The law does talk about it being a gift, make sure it's a "gift" then there is no issues.

    If they would just get rid of the BS 21y/o from an FFL rule we wouldn't need to be talking about this.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Also, he's 19

    He can buy a gun from a private party, just not an FFL.



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    dougwg wrote:
    RaspberrySurprise, WARCHILD, Michigander

    Wrong, it's NOT a straw purchase!

    The only time it qualifies as a "Straw Purchase" is when the person can't legally own a gun.

    The law says nothing about money or the lack of money trading hands.

    If your brother is not a felon or have some other disqualifier hanging over his head, he's good to go.
    Come on dougwg, I'm not disagreeing with you, but you know you need to provide a cite for that.

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    Form 4473 Question 12a
    Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.
    If he buys it and then plans on turning around and selling it to his brother he is not the original purchaser.

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    Rob357 wrote:
    I have a brother thats 19 and he wants a pistol for christmasi know he can't buy one from a FFA dealer but is it legal for me to buy it then sell it to him i don't know the details on that please inform me...do i have to get a bill of sell or what...

    Thanks Guys..
    Just to add to the previous posts, your brother is required by law to obtain the "License to Purchase." If the transfer is before January 7th, IIRC, "Safety Inpection" is also required.

    Per MSP:

    License to Purchase:MCL 28.423was repealed by PA 381 of 2000 eliminating the $5 processing fee for obtaining a License to Purchase. However, you may be charged a fee to notarize the application for a License to Purchase.
    Safety Inspection Certificate (registration):MCL 28.429There is no charge for the Safety Inspection Certificate.


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    RaspberrySurprise wrote:
    Form 4473 Question 12a
    Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.
    If he buys it and then plans on turning around and selling it to his brother he is not the original purchaser.
    Rasberry, Rob357 is not purchasing on behalf of his brother. Therefore, Rob357 is the actual (original) buyer.

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    If he plans on buying the pistol and then turning around and selling it to his brother then yes his is buying on behalf of him.

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    RaspberrySurprise wrote:
    Form 4473 Question 12a
    Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.
    If he buys it and then plans on turning around and selling it to his brother he is not the original purchaser.
    Rasberry, Rob357 is not purchasing on behalf of his brother. Therefore, Rob357 is the actual (original) buyer.
    That question is like a mind game. No one can prove you mean't it for some other person who can legally own a firearm, unless you say so. Who is to say you can't buy a firearm then sell it two weeks later because you decided you didn't want it.

    hidehunter

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    I have seen different accounts of if it qualifies as a straw purchase if you falsify a 4473 and say that it's for you when in fact it's for another person who is legally allowed to have a gun. Some say it is, some say it isn't. Frankly I don't care one way or the other, because what I do know for sure is that it's illegal to falsify a 4473. Hence my advice to make sure to put down that it is a gift for someone else on the 4473.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    There was a case on this, I believe in Texas. A detective bought a female a revolver and paid for it with 90% her money. He paid the other 10% and filled out the 4473. Then gave her the gun. There was a domestic dispute and some other cops went to the females house. When they asked her where she got the gun, she told them this detective bought it for her. The cops investigated and arrested the detective for doing a straw purchase. The detective spent something like $475,000.00 defending himself from the BATFE. He won, but lost his job and everything he worked for.

    That was sometime ago, and I'm not positive of his rank, but thats what happened.

    I guess if you have doubts you should call the BATFE..............from a pay phone.

    hidehunter




  17. #17
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    hidehunter wrote:


    There was a case on this, I believe in Texas. A detective bought a female a revolver and paid for it with 90% her money. He paid the other 10% and filled out the 4473. Then gave her the gun. There was a domestic dispute and some other cops went to the females house. When they asked her where she got the gun, she told them this detective bought it for her. The cops investigated and arrested the detective for doing a straw purchase. The detective spent something like $475,000.00 defending himself from the BATFE. He won, but lost his job and everything he worked for.

    That was sometime ago, and I'm not positive of his rank, but thats what happened.

    I guess if you have doubts you should call the BATFE..............from a pay phone.

    hidehunter


    I guess the question is, did he fill out the form 4473 properly, at the time, indicating he was not the actual purchaser?

    If he won his case against ATF, he should have sued to get his job back as well, unless there were other issues on that front.

    According to ATF's learning center, ( http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ ) as long as you are truthful on the form 4473, and the person you are buying for is not otherwise prohibited from owning a weapon. You should be fine. Of course, in Michigan, you'll have to go through the handgun permit process to make it legal in this state.

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    I called 2 local gun shops Firearm Exchange Westland, Michigan and FiringLine Westland, Michigan and also Michigan State Police they saidIT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL as long as the person i'm selling too or giving it too isn't a FELON, have MENTAL CONDITIONS on file orif they have any intent to do anything illegal with the pistol..i guess what the MSPO was trying to tell me is basicly don't just sell it to anybody uhave toTRUST the person ur selling it too..It doesn't matter anywaymy brother is in the Military and owns whatever he wants legally and is nowhere near a FELONso thanks for the help guys....

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