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Thread: Told to Leave Madison Heights Walmart

  1. #1
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    I was doing some Christmas shopping today about an hour ago with my wife and 8 month old son. I was wearing a jacket when I came in but took it off about half way through our shopping. We shopped for about another 45 minutes or so and went to check out. While in line to check out a manager approached me with two associates on either side flanking me. Because I've OCd in walmart so many times without issue I've gotten out of the habit of carrying my recorder so I immediately started mentally kicking myself.

    But here's my best memory of the conversation:

    Man: I see you have a gun strapped on
    Me: Yes I do
    Man: It's been making some customers nervous, do you have a concealed carry permit
    Me: It's not concealed, there's no permit required.
    Man: Well it's been making some customers nervous
    Me: Does walmart have any policy against carrying firearms?
    Man: This is private property
    Me: I'm aware of that, I'm just wondering if there is a corporate policy or if this is your own policy.
    Man: This is private property
    Me: (taking the hint) Okay, we'll be going
    Man: I don't want to discourage you from shopping here, but you would have to leave the gun
    Me: Well do you have a business card or could I have your last name?
    Man: My name's Chris, I'm the store manager, our customers aren't comfortable with you carrying that
    Me: Well I wouldn't be comfortable without it, so we'll be going

    And we left with our full cart sitting there in front of the checkout.

    So immediately I get home and call up 1800-Walmart the first time
    Me: I'm calling to find out what walmart's policy is regarding legally carried firearms in the store
    Her: Did you have a specific issue in the store
    Me: Yes, I was asked to leave the store in Madison Heights, Virginia by store manager Chris because of my legally carried firearm
    --She put me on hold for a couple of minutes
    Her: Here is the number for the manager of that sore, William Bridger [um, not Chris, was he lying about being manager?]

    I take down the number hoping that Chris wasn't actually a manager and this will be cleared up quickly

    So I call the number (434-846-9650) and ask to speak with William Bridger and when I am taken off of hold I get "Hello this is Chris"
    Me: Actually, I need to talk to William Bridger
    Him: That's me, I go by my middle name Chris

    I hang up, nothing will be accomplished there

    So I call up 1800-walmart again
    Me: I'm calling to find out what walmart's policy is regarding legally carried firearms in the store
    Him: You would need to talk to the store manager about that
    Me: Well I just had an issue in a store involving the store manager so I am trying to find out if walmart has a policy in place as I previously understood to be true
    Him: Well I don't know about that policy, I can give you the number to the district manager.

    Gives me the number for George Joiner at the Charlotsville Walmart (434-973-1412)

    And now that's where I'm stuck, because George won't be in till Monday.

    So untill William/Chris whatever get's his slap on the wrist, stay out of the Madison Heights walmart.

  2. #2
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I believe someone has a signed letter on here from corporate that you may want to get a hold of The manager is wrong and if you can get a hold of corporate I'm sure they will correct the issue.

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    I believe someone has a signed letter on here from corporate that you may want to get a hold of The manager is wrong and if you can get a hold of corporate I'm sure they will correct the issue.
    Well if someone has a better number to call than 1800-walmart I'd love it because it seems as soon as I mention guns they're trained to tell me to call the manager of the store. Seems kinda fishy.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Actually, I'm pretty sure that, while Walmart corporate is gun-friendly enough, they do allow individual managers to set their own rules. If I am remembering correctly, this is almost certainly why they forward your query to the manager of the store in question.

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    asforme wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    I believe someone has a signed letter on here from corporate that you may want to get a hold of The manager is wrong and if you can get a hold of corporate I'm sure they will correct the issue.
    Well if someone has a better number to call than 1800-walmart I'd love it because it seems as soon as I mention guns they're trained to tell me to call the manager of the store. Seems kinda fishy.
    Not really fishy. Since the policy is reportedly to follow the laws of the state in which the store is located, it would make sense to refer the caller to the store. There's no way a call-taker at corporate is going to know the laws for all fifty states.

    I'd just call corporate and ask for the regional manager or some such. Or just stick it out and push through the call-taker at corporate until I actually got to talk to somebody.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Well, I'll be calling the district manager on Monday and see what he says. I guess after that it goes up to the regional manager.

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    Citizen wrote:
    There's no way a call-taker at corporate is going to know the laws for all fifty states.
    No need to, I asked if what walmart's corporate policy was regarding legally carried firearms.

    The answer should be uniform that walmart applies no additional restrictions beyond the laws of the state in which the walmart is located.

    I keep hearing this being referenced as walmart's official policy, but no one seems to have it in writing or any number we can quote to misinformed managers.

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    asforme wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    There's no way a call-taker at corporate is going to know the laws for all fifty states.
    No need to, I asked if what walmart's corporate policy was regarding legally carried firearms.

    The answer should be uniform that walmart applies no additional restrictions beyond the laws of the state in which the walmart is located.

    I keep hearing this being referenced as walmart's official policy, but no one seems to have it in writing or any number we can quote to misinformed managers.
    You've gotsome good points there. Teach me to read, rather than skim.

    As for the policy, it was sorted out for many of the "veterans" here over a year ago. This is why you "keep hearing" about the policy, but haven't seen anything in writting. It might take some real digging to turn up the thread.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
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    Ok since I still seem to see people having problems with wall mart I will (since my better half works for wall mart) I will see if I can get a copy of VA comp. policy and post it

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    You weren't really asked to leave though.. You left on your own after you felt it was hinted that you should.

    Since Wal-Mart's policy is that they follow the laws of the state -- next time just stay and remain unless your asked to leave.

    Just my Saturday evening quarterbacking..

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    Xeni wrote:
    You weren't really asked to leave though.. You left on your own after you felt it was hinted that you should.

    Since Wal-Mart's policy is that they follow the laws of the state -- next time just stay and remain unless your asked to leave.

    Just my Saturday evening quarterbacking..
    Well someone repeatedly telling you that you're on private property sends a pretty strong hint. I for one don't want to be arrested for trespassing.

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    asforme wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    You weren't really asked to leave though.. You left on your own after you felt it was hinted that you should.

    Since Wal-Mart's policy is that they follow the laws of the state -- next time just stay and remain unless your asked to leave.

    Just my Saturday evening quarterbacking..
    Well someone repeatedly telling you that you're on private property sends a pretty strong hint. I for one don't want to be arrested for trespassing.
    You've got every right to be concerned about this. But you may want to consider the fact that you were never actually asked, or told, to leave. Someone making the statement, "You are on private property", is only making a statement. We cannot infer any other meaning from this, nor could a police officer. Once he says he wants you to either put the gun in your car or leave the premises, then you do want to honor the request.

    I hope you do follow this up and see where it leads. I have OC'd a number of times in three area Walmarts and have never experienced any sort of problem at all.


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689-4.html
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Walmart Corp HQ has established a policy regarding firearms in their stores. However, it is a flexible policy that allows the GM's of each store to address the issue according to the demographics where each store is located in, while complying with state laws. Walmart Corp does not want to come off as being anti 2A and the Walton family may very well be pro 2A, which may be why they don't want their stores posted with no firearms signs. But they have to consider the attitude of the vast majority of their customers that don't carry a firearm, which will vary from area to area. They also have to take into consideration how local LE respond to MWG calls. We all no that some LEO's make a big scene when confronting an OCer, which isn't good for business.
    It seems to me I remember another thread where the conclusion was more in line with what Task Force 16 is saying here. Does anybody remember?

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    marshaul wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Walmart Corp HQ has established a policy regarding firearms in their stores. However, it is a flexible policy that allows the GM's of each store to address the issue according to the demographics where each store is located in, while complying with state laws. Walmart Corp does not want to come off as being anti 2A and the Walton family may very well be pro 2A, which may be why they don't want their stores posted with no firearms signs. But they have to consider the attitude of the vast majority of their customers that don't carry a firearm, which will vary from area to area. They also have to take into consideration how local LE respond to MWG calls. We all no that some LEO's make a big scene when confronting an OCer, which isn't good for business.
    It seems to me I remember another thread where the conclusion was more in line with what Task Force 16 is saying here. Does anybody remember?
    As has been noted by others, this was sorted out over a year ago. At that time it was established that the Walmart policy is to follow local laws. It is NOT up to the store manager to establish a policy beyond that.

    But as Citizen has pointed out it will take some digging to find the thread where this is posted.

    As for the trespassing element that is of concern to the OP. You must be asked to leave directly. Hints do not count. If you fail to leave AFTER BEING ASKED TO DO SO the police may be called, and you minght bearrested for trespassing. Simply telling you that it is private property carries no weight.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I wish I could come up with the words (and the ability to deliver them in a calm, polite, professional, yet firm manner) that said something to the effect of:

    "You better be darn well sure of your facts here, because I assure you, your management will either be backing you up, or chewing you out come Monday afternoon. And by the way, several thousand of my closest friends will be reading all about it too!"



    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    When I read stories like this, especially when it appears that an employee is incorrect, I think how cool it would be to organize something like this, but instead of blue shirts and khaki pants, everyone would be OC!

    http://improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/

    Imagine the "laws" the LEOs in Norfolk would be trying to make up during such an incident! :quirky

    TFred

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    I can't OC but I'm down to wear a holster and dress up in wal mart attire:celebrate

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    Below is all I came up with maybe there is a more recent VCDL alert with different info...

    From: VCDL President Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:17 PM
    Subject: VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 9/3/07
    **************************************************
    3. New firearms policy at Wal-Mart lets district managers decide **************************************************

    Member A.L. Soots relays his experience at the Fairlawn Wal-Mart: Mr. Van Cleave, About a month ago, a relative of mine was in the Wal-Mart in Fairlawn. He was doing some shopping while open carrying his weapon. After being in the store for a little while, he was confronted by the assistant store manager, Jim Hancock, who told him that he was breaking the law by carrying his firearm, and asked him to remove it in the store and let him take it. When my relative said no, the manager told him that he could either go with him to the office and "straighten this out" or be prosecuted. He said, "OK," not knowing what he was going to be prosecuted for. When they got to the back of the store, the assistant manager then called the Pulaski Sheriff's Department and put the deputy on speaker phone and asked what my relative could be charged with. When the deputy told him that there was no law being broken, he then hung up and started telling my relative that "things were going to change when the next president was elected...and people like my relative were going to lose their rights to carry weapons." When my relative wanted to leave, he was told that he had to write a report. After the report was written and signed, he then told him to leave the property. There were witnesses to this. After I talked with Dave Knight about this, he called and talked with the store manager who told him that her store employees would "be educated" and that they weren't to bother anyone carrying a weapon in the store. Well, last night (August 28, 2007) I was in the same store to purchase some ammo for a CCW class that I was teaching. I was in the store with a friend of mine. We walked straight from the front door to the sporting goods department (open carrying). After standing at the counter with no help for a few minutes we were confronted by the SAME assistant manager and another employee. Mr. Hancock told us that we were not welcome in the store while carrying a weapon and he wanted us OFF THE PROPERTY NOW. I asked him if this was store policy or his policy. He said it didn't matter, and that if we did not leave, we would be charged with trespassing. We turned to walk out of the store and Mr. Hancock followed us on our heels all the way out. I stopped at one point to ask him why he was following us. After we left I made a call to the district supervisor, Terry Sartain, and left a message at his office because it was after hours. I spoke with Mr. Sartain this morning and he told me that the local managers and he were working on a new firearms policy. He said that they had cleared it with the home office and the legal department and that they were OK to change the policy in his store to NO FIREARMS...NO CONCEALED OR OPEN CARRY!! He said that the signs were being printed and would be posted in a couple of days. The stores affected by this change are Fairlawn, Christiansburg, and Salem, with Roanoke stores to follow. So, it looks like Wal-Mart is falling. What do we do about this, or is there anything that we can do? (Update: I just spoke with someone at corporate and was told by them that the new Wal-Mart corporate policy on firearms is to let district managers decide on the firearms policy for their stores. It is in their hands and out of corporate.) -- I will let everyone know when the signs get posted (if they get posted). There are many different ways we may choose to There are many different ways we may choose to respond, I will let you know what we suggest in a future update.

    **************************************************

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    W.E.G. wrote:
    OK, so they follow the laws of the state for licensed CC, but for OC they leave it up to the manager. I knew I was right.

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    TFred wrote:
    When I read stories like this, especially when it appears that an employee is incorrect, I think how cool it would be to organize something like this, but instead of blue shirts and khaki pants, everyone would be OC!

    http://improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/

    Imagine the "laws" the LEOs in Norfolk would be trying to make up during such an incident! :quirky

    TFred
    Thanks for the reminder. I enjoyed their stories and am pleased that they are still in business. I got eleven hits on a site search for "gun" but all for non-firearms.

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    Just tell the manager that, in the last 2 weeks, more people have been killed by unarmed customers(1) than armed customers(0). He can pass that along to the people who are "concerned."



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    TFred wrote:
    When I read stories like this, especially when it appears that an employee is incorrect, I think how cool it would be to organize something like this, but instead of blue shirts and khaki pants, everyone would be OC!

    http://improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/

    Imagine the "laws" the LEOs in Norfolk would be trying to make up during such an incident! :quirky

    TFred
    Naw, the LEOs in Norfolk wouldn't bother a big group, they'd just wait for everyone to go home and danbus to be alone before they start making up laws.

    Upon reflection I suppose I could have stuck it out and tried to convince the manager that people who open carry don't pose a threat. But since this was only my second confrontation I was a bit nervous and didn't want to look argumentative and have the police show up.

    I think on monday before I call the district manager again I'll call up Chris/William and try to resolve the issue with him. I'll be sure and let him know that his walmart is only minutes away from the only gun range in the Lynchburg area and if this is indeed his policy I will need to make sure the range notifies it's patrons that they should buy their ammo and targets elsewhere.

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    asforme wrote:
    I was doing some Christmas shopping today about an hour ago with my wife and 8 month old son.* I was wearing a jacket when I came in but took it off about half way through our shopping.* We shopped for about another 45 minutes or so and went to check out.* While in line to check out a manager approached me with two associates on either side flanking me.* Because I've OCd in walmart so many times without issue I've gotten out of the habit of carrying my recorder so I immediately started mentally kicking myself.

    But here's my best memory of the conversation:

    Man:* I see you have a gun strapped on
    Me:* Yes I do
    Man:* It's been making some customers nervous, do you have a concealed carry permit
    Me:* It's not concealed, there's no permit required.
    Man:* Well it's been making some customers nervous
    Me:* Does walmart have any policy against carrying firearms?
    Man:* This is private property
    Me:* I'm aware of that, I'm just wondering if there is a corporate policy or if this is your own policy.
    Man:* This is private property
    Me:* (taking the hint)* Okay, we'll be going
    Man:* I don't want to discourage you from shopping here, but you would have to leave the gun
    Me:* Well do you have a business card or could I have your last name?
    Man:* My name's Chris, I'm the store manager, our customers aren't comfortable with you carrying that
    Me:* Well I wouldn't be comfortable without it, so we'll be going

    And we left with our full cart sitting there in front of the checkout.

    So immediately I get home and call up 1800-Walmart the first time
    Me:* I'm calling to find out what walmart's policy is regarding legally carried firearms in the store
    Her:* Did you have a specific issue in the store
    Me:* Yes, I was asked to leave the store in Madison Heights, Virginia by store manager Chris because of my legally carried firearm
    --She put me on hold for a couple of minutes
    Her:* Here is the number for the manager of that sore, William Bridger [um, not Chris, was he lying about being manager?]

    I take down the number hoping that Chris wasn't actually a manager and this will be cleared up quickly

    So I call the number (434-846-9650) and ask to speak with William Bridger and when I am taken off of hold I get "Hello this is Chris"
    Me:* Actually, I need to talk to William Bridger
    Him:* That's me, I go by my middle name Chris

    I hang up, nothing will be accomplished there

    So I call up 1800-walmart again
    Me:* I'm calling to find out what walmart's policy is regarding legally carried firearms in the store
    Him:* You would need to talk to the store manager about that
    Me:* Well I just had an issue in a store involving the store manager so I am trying to find out if walmart has a policy in place as I previously understood to be true
    Him:* Well I don't know about that policy, I can give you the number to the district manager.

    Gives me the number for George Joiner at the Charlotsville Walmart (434-973-1412)

    And now that's where I'm stuck, because George won't be in till Monday.

    So untill William/Chris whatever get's his slap on the wrist, stay out of the Madison Heights walmart.
    Didn't Wal-mart used to sell guns? You would think you would WANT a good citizen OC'ing in your store. That alone may deter some idiot from pulling a VT incident.

  25. #25
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Naw, the LEOs in Norfolk wouldn't bother a big group, they'd just wait for everyone to go home and danbus to be alone before they start making up laws.


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