WAC Gun Show

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I think one point many have pointed out but.... it's clear if you have that many people handling firearms and some are loaded the odds are simply that theiris a higher possibilityto havean acciddental discharge.

Firearms has already been in the news all month. We really don't need to supply the antigunners out there with just stupid things "we" can prevent.

I'm sure the father cleaning his gun a few weeks ago didn't mean to shoot his daughter or the military spouse shooting her husband or how about that DEA Firearms Instructor (youtube.com) a few years back that shot himself in the leg while teaching a classroom of high schoolers - I'm sure he didn't intend to shoot himself in the leg.

As gun owners we've all been to the range and I'm sure most of us know that we are not all created equal in regards to safety. Some people just don't have a clue and sadly enough that's on the firing line at a range.

Yes, it's a pain and I will have to admit I don't like it but I do make it a point to carry my fully customed 1991A1 (1911 variant) - yes it's unloaded and tied by WAC staff.

Remember you need at least 3 things for something bad.

1) Gun 2) Loaded gun 3) YOU

Take any of those out of the equation and not much is going to happen.

Now we're all not liking this rule but some will live with it and some will not. No one is forcing you to go or not to go.

There are legal and safety considerations- most of which has already been discussed. We do need to support the organizations that benefit our cause not tear them down.

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oldkim wrote:

I think one point many have pointed out but.... it's clear if you have that many people handling firearms and some are loaded the odds are simply that theiris a higher possibilityto havean acciddental discharge.

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I think you mean negligent discharge. Accidental would be if something broke and caused the gun to fire without human intervention, and even then if all the rules are being followed the chances of someone being injured will be minimized.

Of course, I think it's clear that if you have that many people open carrying firearms, and some are loaded, the odds are simply that there is a higher possibility of a negligent discharge. :quirky.

Oh wait, that's not right. :banghead:

Anyway, the real solution is to have organizers removing anyone handling a gun unsafely or remove anyone handling a gun that's not tied. Don't punish the safe because of fear of the idiots.

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oldkim wrote:

I think one point many have pointed out but.... it's clear if you have that many people handling firearms and some are loaded the odds are simply that theiris a higher possibilityto havean acciddental discharge.

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Yup, because there are so many negligent discharges at IDPA and USPSA meets.

I'm sure the father cleaning his gun a few weeks ago didn't mean to shoot his daughter

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Alcohol involved. Bad reference. Next.

or the military spouse shooting her husband

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Alcohol involved. Bad reference. Next.

or how about that DEA Firearms Instructor (youtube.com) a few years back that shot himself in the leg while teaching a classroom of high schoolers - I'm sure he didn't intend to shoot himself in the leg.

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Broke a bunch of rules (didn't treat it as loaded, pointed it at something he didn't want to destroy, didn't keep finger off trigger until ready to fire... he didn't have a target, so he couldn't be sure of it and that behind it - 3/4 rules) and was generally being an arrogant ass. Not to mention, he shouldn't have brought a real firearm to the school if he intended on unholstering; WAC shows would have holstered firearms. If a gun comes out of a holster, it could be grounds for ejection and loss of membership, simple as that.

Now we're all not liking this rule but some will live with it and some will not. No one is forcing you to go or not to go.

There are legal and safety considerations- most of which has already been discussed. We do need to support the organizations that benefit our cause not tear them down.

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I choose not to go. Not just because of the stripping of my ability to defend myself, but also because they don't have anything I'd want to pay money for... everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is vastly overpriced. If they can't get vendors (yes, I know they have no control over what the prices are) that want to make it worth it to pay for a membership and drive an hour to go to a show, then I don't see a reason to go.

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The IDPA/USPSA reference doesn't count here.... in a way. For the matches you have at least one RO/SO by your side during the shoot. The range is cold - meaning you can't carry a loaded firearm unless you are on the firing line. Everyone goes through a safety check. Totally different setting. Plus 50-90 shooters at a match and over a thousand(s) or more at WAC show.

So, since you can't carry a loaded firearm in a match are you upset? Are you going to protest and boycottthe next IDPA or USPSA match? Why not? Didn't think so.

I'm currently running a practice course this weekend and I don't know most of the shooters. Most have their CPL's and have been carrying for years. I'm facilitating folks to practice drawing, firing and shooting on the move and engaging multiple targets. It's a step before IDPA/USPSA as it's really low key. But the point is I don't know them and their skills. Once they come on the range it's a cold range. They'll have to follow rules.

Point is: we all live with rules. Yes, some are just stupid but come on... there is an extreme too when you get too hardheaded. I haven't been to a show in over a year but I'm not boycotting I'm just going someplace else. Everyone needs to go to a good gunshow and we're fortunate to have one so close and on such a regular basis. I think we take it for granted at times.

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I am a 28yr old Life Member of WAC. I have been going to the shows since I could walk. I have been there when some moron had an accidental discharge. I agree with their policy.

The Western Washington Fairgrounds are PRIVATE PROPERTY. It's no different than any other business. They can restrict the carry of firearms all they want. Yes there are plenty of good, responsible firearm owners, but there are also enough idiots out there to warrant some safety precautions such as no loaded firearms allowed at the show.

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure, most of the members of this board are safe, responsible people, but those shows attract a LOT of different people...

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Just a car wrote

I choose not to go. Not just because of the stripping of my ability to defend myself, but also because they don't have anything I'd want to pay money for... everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is vastly overpriced. If they can't get vendors (yes, I know they have no control over what the prices are) that want to make it worth it to pay for a membership and drive an hour to go to a show, then I don't see a reason to go.

It is obvious that you have never stopped at my table. Try it, you will be surprised

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I agree with everything JAC said in his posts. Overpriced and quite hypocritical. I choose to spend my hard earned money at a local gun store that doesn't disarm me and strip me of my rights while I am there. WAC will never get one thin dime of my money until they stop disarming people that go to their shows and start having some decent deals that make it worth going to the show in the first place. Good riddance.

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Logan80 wrote:

I am a 28yr old Life Member of WAC. I have been going to the shows since I could walk. I have been there when some moron had an accidental discharge. I agree with their policy.

The Western Washington Fairgrounds are PRIVATE PROPERTY. It's no different than any other business. They can restrict the carry of firearms all they want. Yes there are plenty of good, responsible firearm owners, but there are also enough idiots out there to warrant some safety precautions such as no loaded firearms allowed at the show.

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure, most of the members of this board are safe, responsible people, but those shows attract a LOT of different people...

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Nobody's arguing WAC's private property rights or their ability to control who they let in. Some people just tend to think that it's a bit hypocritical for an organization that supposedly supports gun rights to choose to limit others' use of those rights.

I'm not one of those who's going to say "I'll never go to a WAC show because they won't let me carry." I'll CC and nobody will be the wiser if I decide to go. The one I went to in Monroe a couple years back wasn't exactly impressive, which is why I don't go .

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oldkim wrote:

The IDPA/USPSA reference doesn't count here.... in a way. For the matches you have at least one RO/SO by your side during the shoot. The range is cold - meaning you can't carry a loaded firearm unless you are on the firing line. Everyone goes through a safety check. Totally different setting. Plus 50-90 shooters at a match and over a thousand(s) or more at WAC show.

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That's kind of apples to oranges... At the range you are actually handling the weapons. Loading them, clearing them, shooting them, etc. People carrying holstered sidearms for defense aren't doing that.

Simply make it a rule that if you clear leather you're booted and the problem is solved.

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IDPA vs gunshow:

If you haven't ever noticed but at any gun show - people are handling firearms all the time. Picking up this and that off the table. (Yes, it's proper to ask first.) How do you tell which one is from their holster or off the table? So, if you see a guy handling a firearm he's tackled and kicked out? Sorry but just an extreme.

How about the guy who see's a nice piece of gear(sights, grips, whatever)they want to put on their firearm and thinks he's safe and pulls out his gun.

Never did answer about ... since you can't keep your gun loaded at an IDPA - are you going to boycott that too?

We need to strengthen not tear down what we have. Thank God for Freedom of Speech. It's not an "earned" right but that is how it goes.

"earned" since it's just applies to everyone in this Great Land.

For those that have served and for those that have made the ultimate sacrifice let us not take this for granted. Freedom is not Free. It just may not have costYOU something but it has someone or someone's loved one.

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oldkim wrote:

IDPA vs gunshow:

If you haven't ever noticed but at any gun show - people are handling firearms all the time. Picking up this and that off the table. (Yes, it's proper to ask first.) How do you tell which one is from their holster or off the table? So, if you see a guy handling a firearm he's tackled and kicked out? Sorry but just an extreme.

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It's a gun show for crying out loud. There will be plenty of witnesses if someone chooses to whip it out. Yes, if I'm walking down the aisle I may not know the difference, but the vendor is going to know what's what along with the other dozens of people that were around when the idiot unholstered. If someone is reported to have unholstered a weapon then yes, kick them out.

And, considering that it's a crowded gun show, anyone drawing a weapon is likely to be in a world of hurt fairly quickly, anyway.

How about the guy who see's a nice piece of gear (sights, grips, whatever)they want to put on their firearm and thinks he's safe and pulls out his gun.

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That person is an idiot and should be booted.

Never did answer about ... since you can't keep your gun loaded at an IDPA - are you going to boycott that too?

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I wasn't the one you originally addressed it to, but as I said that's an apples to oranges comparison. You can't compare people actively handling their loaded weapons to people keeping their hands off of their holstered handguns. It's not the same.

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ALL of the gun shows in Washington require you to unload your weapon and have the action tied open to enter the show.

2009

Apr 25-26 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410

May 2-3 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
May 2-3 Mount Vernon, Skagit County Fairgrounds, 1410 Virginia St, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
May 2-3 Shelton, Little Creek Casino and Resort, 91 W. State Route 108, Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol, wesknodelgunshows.com
May 16-17 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
May 30-31 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410

Jun 6-7 Custer, Custer Sportsmen’s Club, 3000 Birch Bay-Lynden Rd, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Jun 13-14 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Jun 20-21 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com

Jul 18-19 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
Jul 18-19 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410

Aug 1-2 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410
Aug 8-9 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
Aug 8-9 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Aug 29-30 Mount Vernon, Skagit County Fairgrounds, 1410 Virginia St, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336

Sep 12-13 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
Sep 12-13 Port Angeles, Masonic Temple, 622 So. Lincoln falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Sep 19-20 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Sep 26-27 Deming, Deming Logger Showgrounds, 3295 Cedarville Rd, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Sep 26-27 Shelton, Little Creek Casino and Resort, 91 W. State Route 108, Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol, wesknodelgunshows.com

Oct 3-4 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Oct 10-11 Custer, Custer Sportsmen’s Club, 3000 Birch Bay-Lynden Rd, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Oct 17-18 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
Oct 17-18 Elma, Grays Harbor County Fairgrounds, 32 Elma-McLeary Rd alconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Oct 24-25 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410

Nov 7-8 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Nov 14-15 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410
Nov 28-29 Mount Vernon, Skagit County Fairgrounds, 1410 Virginia St, falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336
Nov 28-29 Shelton, Little Creek Casino and Resort, 91 W. State Route 108, Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol, wesknodelgunshows.com

Dec 5-6 Centralia, SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave Tbls $40 Wall Tbls $45, SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $5 503 363-9564 email: wesknodel@aol.com wesknodelgunshows.com
Dec 5-6 Monroe, evergreen State Fairgrounds, 250 tbls $40, A:$7 Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 WAC 425-255-8410
Dec 12-13 Puyallup, Western Washington Farigrounds, 1200 tbls, $40, A: $8 Sat 8-5 Sun 8-4 WAC 425-255-8410

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I just joined this forum, primarily in order to respond to this thread. I want to address two different matters.

First, to the lady who signed herself "Just Another Member" and reported being yelled at by a WAC Security person while she was reading the signs. Did you by chance get the name of that fellow? Taking your report at face value, nobody entering a WAC gathering should be yelled at while reading one of the signs posted to inform the public of our rules. If WAC security people behave improperly, the club wants to know about it, so staff can be properly trained & prevent future occurrences of bad behavior.

Anyone having a problem or questions regarding WAC can email or write to the club; addresses are on the club website: washingtonarmscollectors.org

Second, to "diesel" and others who disagree with WAC's policies: WAC is a nonprofit corporation, originated in 1952. From its beginnings as a small group of collectors, it has grown to be the largest Washington State pro-gun organization; with several thousand members--far larger than any conventional "shooting range" gun club in the state. Would you not think WAC must be doing something right?

As Boyd has noted, WAC conducts firearms safety classes at our gatherings, at no extra cost to the attendees. Unlike commercial "for profit" gun shows, WAC publishes a monthly magazine, with articles about various types of arms as well as legislative matters.

And, perhaps most importantly, WAC's officials (the people who run the club) are ELECTED by the members. Thus if the members don't like a club policy, they have the power to make changes, either by electing different people or by changing the club bylaws.

WAC's safety rules are posted on the website, in the club magazine each month, and on signs at the entrances. As previously noted, the Puyallup Fairgrounds are private property. They don't want loaded guns carried in their buildings by other than law enforcement. If someone disobeys that rule and causes a negligent discharge, such action would automatically break the club's lease contract and cause WAC to be evicted. Do any of you naysayers have an idea where WAC could continue its activities if that were to happen?

On shooting ranges with which I'm familiar, guns behind the firing line are to be unloaded. During ceasefires, when people are going forward of the line to change targets, etc, guns on the line are opened and people remaining on the line are required to step back and not allowed to touch guns on the shooting benches. I think most gun clubs would severely penalize any member or guest disobeying their safety rules.

At gun shows, people are handling guns all the time. In a crowded room, it is almost impossible to take a handgun from a holster, and point it in a SAFE DIRECTION without the muzzle crossing one or more people before the gun can be opened & cleared. If the pistol is discharged while pointing at a concrete floor, the bullet is certain to ricochet & possibly cause serious damage.

(As an aside, how many of you know the proper way to clear semiautomatic pistols? The safest way is to point the gun in a safe direction, drop the magazine FIRST, and THEN clear the chamber.)

If a negligent discharge causes some sort of property damage, wounds or even worse, kills a person, what do you think would happen to the shooter? Aside from possible criminal charges, a civil lawsuit would be very likely. And WAC would likely be a defendant because the plaintiffs would allege that WAC allowed the incident to happen by not having proper safety rules, and the WAC might be deemed to have "deeper pockets" than the shooter.

Most commercial gun shows have similar safety rules to WAC; accidents have occurred and people have been killed at gun shows because firearms were not handled safely.

Readers who are not WAC members can come to one of our gatherings, pay the admission fee and look around. Members of the public can buy ammo, sights, etc--just not guns. Only members may buy, sell or trade guns at WAC gatherings. (After all, there has to be an advantage of being a member! This rule, and our safety rules, are as old as the club.)

Some of you may not think that's worth it, but I'd like to ask if you formed that opinion before or after attending a WAC gathering? If you've never been to a WAC event, where is your justification for bad-mouthing the club? (There's a gathering at Puyallup this weekend, btw. With some 900 tables rented, the Showplex should be pretty full. Monroe events are smaller, of course.)

Nonmembers who want to obey WAC's rules can leave their guns at home or in their cars. Members can leave their ammo/magazines in their cars & carry their unloaded guns if they prefer. All people entering thru the gate are asked if they have guns or cameras. If somebody lies and carries a concealed loaded handgun, and they are discovered, they'll be asked to leave. If the violator was a member, the penalty would probably be suspension for at least a year or maybe expulsion. If the violator was a member of the public, the person probably would be permanently barred from joining WAC and prohibited from attending future gatherings on pain of criminal trespass. That's the risk one takes if one deliberately violates that safety rule.

Whether to join or not join WAC is a personal choice, depending on one's interests, budget, distance from WAC events, work schedules, etc. But alleging that WAC should be put on a "do not patronize" list because one disagrees with WAC's safety rules is another matter. That seems to me like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. That last thing the shooting community needs is for gun owners to denigrate other gun groups because their interests may not exactly be the same.

I think it was Ben Franklin who said "Hang together or hang separately." Given the current nature of our Federal Government I think his advice is as true today as it was in 1776.

J W Mathews
Secretary, W.A.C.

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A big plus one to both Just_a_car, and compmanio 365

j w mathews wrote:

[SNIP]
WAC's safety rules are posted on the website, in the club magazine each month, and on signs at the entrances. As previously noted, the Puyallup Fairgrounds are private property. They don't want loaded guns carried in their buildings by other than law enforcement. If someone disobeys that rule and causes a negligent discharge, such action would automatically break the club's lease contract and cause WAC to be evicted. Do any of you naysayers have an idea where WAC could continue its activities if that were to happen?

It sounds like you are saying that the WAC policy would change if an amenable venue were available?

On shooting ranges with which I'm familiar, guns behind the firing line are to be unloaded. During ceasefires, when people are going forward of the line to change targets, etc, guns on the line are opened and people remaining on the line are required to step back and not allowed to touch guns on the shooting benches. I think most gun clubs would severely penalize any member or guest disobeying their safety rules.

At the 5 or so ranges that I've been a member of or rented at in Washington state, the policy you quote is for unholstered firearms only. I routinely carry my holstered sidearm while rifle shooting at my current range, and I have openly carried my firearm at Wades many times while on the range (it usually helps start a friendly conversation with the RO's, who want to take a few shots with it).

[SNIP]

(As an aside, how many of you know the proper way to clear semiautomatic pistols? The safest way is to point the gun in a safe direction, drop the magazine FIRST, and THEN clear the chamber.)

Really? It reads as if you are speaking down to everyone here. I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

[SNIP]

Some of you may not think that's worth it, but I'd like to ask if you formed that opinion before or after attending a WAC gathering? If you've never been to a WAC event, where is your justification for bad-mouthing the club? (There's a gathering at Puyallup this weekend, btw. With some 900 tables rented, the Showplex should be pretty full. Monroe events are smaller, of course.)

I didn't form an opinion until after attending a show.

Nonmembers who want to obey WAC's rules can leave their guns at home or in their cars. Members can leave their ammo/magazines in their cars & carry their unloaded guns if they prefer. All people entering thru the gate are asked if they have guns or cameras. If somebody lies and carries a concealed loaded handgun, and they are discovered, they'll be asked to leave. If the violator was a member, the penalty would probably be suspension for at least a year or maybe expulsion. If the violator was a member of the public, the person probably would be permanently barred from joining WAC and prohibited from attending future gatherings on pain of criminal trespass. That's the risk one takes if one deliberately violates that safety rule.

I'm sure this aggressive policy of banning violators for life is also required by your lease with the fairgrounds.

Whether to join or not join WAC is a personal choice, depending on one's interests, budget, distance from WAC events, work schedules, etc. But alleging that WAC should be put on a "do not patronize" list because one disagrees with WAC's safety rules is another matter. That seems to me like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. That last thing the shooting community needs is for gun owners to denigrate other gun groups because their interests may not exactly be the same.

The "do not patronize" list is not based on disagreements, or personal opinion. It is a criteria based list. If you meet the criteria (prohibiting weapons), you go on the list. Seems pretty fair to me.

Interestingly, the WAC seems to have fallen into a grey area in that it does not prohibit weapons outright, instead removing their usefulness.

I think it was Ben Franklin who said "Hang together or hang separately." Given the current nature of our Federal Government I think his advice is as true today as it was in 1776.

J W Mathews
Secretary, W.A.C.

Thanks for your response to this topic. It was very informative.

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j w mathews wrote:

(As an aside, how many of you know the proper way to clear semiautomatic pistols? The safest way is to point the gun in a safe direction, drop the magazine FIRST, and THEN clear the chamber.)

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Really? My technique is usually to put any innocent bystanders behind me, rack the slide, drop the magazine, point the gun at my head and pull the trigger. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

This is a pointless argument. You see us all as idiots and do the same grade-school crap the bleeding hearts do. Instead of punishing a behavior you punish everyone. Juvenile, but certainly within your rights as a private organization.

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Just how many of you nay sayers will let a stranger, carrying a loaded firearm, come into your home? I will not let a police officer into my home without a warrant, And I was in that business for 27 years.

No that is not different, both instances are the same. Strangers with guns in an unfamiliar environment.

If you don't ike the policy, you have a couple options, both of which have been posted.

1. Become a member, run for office, get elected, change policy

2. Quit your complaining and do not attend.

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Trigger Dr wrote:

Just how many of you nay sayers will let a stranger, carrying a loaded firearm, come into your home? I will not let a police officer into my home without a warrant, And I was in that business for 27 years.

No that is not different, both instances are the same. Strangers with guns in an unfamiliar environment.

If you don't ike the policy, you have a couple options, both of which have been posted.

1. Become a member, run for office, get elected, change policy

2. Quit your complaining and do not attend.

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3. Continue to voice our opinion/educate others and do not attend.

Don't like it? You have a couple of options; oh wait, no you don't.

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Trigger Dr wrote:

Just how many of you nay sayers will let a stranger, carrying a loaded firearm, come into your home? I will not let a police officer into my home without a warrant, And I was in that business for 27 years.

No that is not different, both instances are the same. Strangers with guns in an unfamiliar environment.

If you don't ike the policy, you have a couple options, both of which have been posted.

1. Become a member, run for office, get elected, change policy

2. Quit your complaining and do not attend.

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Uh, I let people carry loaded firearms into my home all the time, so long as they remain holstered. Some of the other OCDO members in the area have been in my home several times, and I have even had ones that I never met except online come for sales or trades, whatever, and have had no issue with their OC in my home. The gun stayed holstered and there was no issue.

A police officer is a different story, as the issue I have with them is not their gun they carry, but the fact that without a warrant, they have no business in my home, as they are always looking for something to charge you with, anything at all. I will NOT give them any more help than they already get from our bloated and freedom-hating government. Apples and oranges.

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+1 to Trigger Dr. +2 to Mr. Mathews

Knight and Diesel, believe it or not I have seen people clearing pistols who don't know the proper steps. I don't think Mr. Mathews was speaking down to anyone here, but demonstrating a point. At the gun shows you get thousands of patrons, hundreds of which have NEVER handled a firearm before.

As it has been stated, bitching about their rules won't help you any. So you could buy land and build a large facility on it and have your own gun shows, do the same and rent to WAC and tell them loaded carry is ok. Or you can join, get elected and work on changing policy. Or you can just not go. Why are you trying to ruin ALL gun shows? What's the point in trying to convince people not to go? You must hate all gun shows because they ALL require the same thing; NO LOADED FIREARMS IN THE SHOW. The only difference with WAC is only members are allowed to carry at all. If you don't like not having a pistol with you, join and have an UNLOADED pistol with you. If you can't stand not having a loaded gun with you, then perhaps a gun show isn't a place for you.

Personally, with the number of people (especially noobs) that attend gun shows, I much prefer the SAFETY policy of no loaded guns in the show. All it would take is for someone to take a loaded gun in and have some whacko manage to pull it off of them and shoot some people and you would see ALL gun shows shut down. Our state legislators, mayors and especially our govenor don't need any more ammo in their attempts to disarm us.

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"All it would take is one whacko to manage to pull it off them and shoot some people..." ".....and that's why you shouldn't OC." See how similar these arguments sound? Same baseless, emotional arguments as the people that argue against OC, or even gun ownership in general. I thought our membership on this forum was above this kind of BS, but I guess I was wrong.

And YES, I DO hate ALL gun shows that require me to be a disarmed victim while I am there. And I wouldn't patronize ANY of them that have that as a requirement. If that means they go the way of the dodo, good riddance. I'll keep shopping at my local store that respects my rights while I am there. You people want to keep supporting a failing business model that restricts your right, be my guest. Might as well go support places like Simon Malls and Jared, cause you apparently don't care about being disarmed for the convenience of shopping at a crowded, overpriced gun show, and that is no different.