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It begins, Veterans' Disarmament. A letter to GRGRSC El Presidente

Gordie

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wrightme wrote:
rodbender wrote:
Ahhh, the ever so wise NRA strikes again. P#$%ks

Thanks, Gordie.

Or not.......

There are differing viewpoints on HR 2640

I found an article that calls in to question the ambiguous views of 2640.

Doug Huffman wrote:
wrightme wrote:
The letter also indicates that the person was turned down for a CWP.
No. Renewal was declined.

SC Law Enforcement Division has adopted extra-legal requirements, beyond those addressed in the shall-issue law. IIRC, more than five traffic citations will result in non-renewal as a habitual offender, nowhere addressed in the implementing legislation.
So then this isn't an HR 2640 item at all then.....
[/u]
Maybe it is:
I was told that because the VA had me listed as not being able to handle my own funds ( which a local doctor disagrees with) and I'm being treated for PTSD that I was on a FBI list.
Notice that it is because of the diagnosis through the VA that is being given as the reason.

Regardless, this law has way too many chances for abuse built into it. As a veteran myself it scares me. If I was suffering from PTSD, I would think twice before going for the help that I needed. This is hardly the situation that is best for any of us.
 

Gordie

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wrightme wrote:
rodbender wrote:
Ahhh, the ever so wise NRA strikes again. P#$%ks

Thanks, Gordie.
Or not.......

There are differing viewpoints on HR 2640

I found an article that calls in to question the ambiguous views of 2640.

NRA Bashers, Nope! Wrong again

Another one by the same person.

Enough NRA Bashing
The problem that I have with these articles is that they are both by the same person, so of course they support each other. Also, they cite as their primary support the NRA, what else would the NRA say about a bill which they supported? The GOA had a different view.

The article said:
WASHINGTON, DC - Leading national gun violence prevention organizations - the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, the Legal Community Against Violence, and the Violence Policy Center - today warned that a bill intended to improve the records available to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) - the national system used to screen gun buyers - has been hijacked by the gun lobby and would now do far more harm than good. [Emphasis added]
Yet Carolyn McCarthy told CBS News, "This is the best Christmas present I could ever receive."

The article said:

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) would be required to establish a "relief from disability" program to allow persons now prohibited from possessing a firearm because they have "been adjudicated as a mental defective" or "committed to a mental institution" to apply to have their bar on firearms possession removed. As a result of the bill, more than 116,000 individuals would be eligible to apply.

GOA says:
ARGUMENT: The Veterans Disarmament Act creates new avenues for prohibited persons to seek restoration of their gun rights.
ANSWER: What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.
And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regain the gun rights this very bill takes away from them.
More to the point, what minimal gains were granted by the "right hand" are taken away by the "left." Section 105 provides a process for some Americans diagnosed with so-called mental disabilities to get their rights restored in the state where they live. But then, in subsection (a)(2), the bill stipulates that such relief may occur only if "the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BE CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST." (Emphasis added.)
Um, doesn't this language sound similar to those state codes (like California's) that have "may issue" concealed carry laws -- where citizens "technically" have the right to carry, but state law only says that sheriffs MAY ISSUE them a permit to carry? When given such leeway, those sheriffs usually don't grant the permits!
Prediction: liberal states -- the same states that took these people's rights away -- will treat almost every person who has been illegitimately denied as a danger to society and claim that granting relief would be "contrary to the public interest."
The article says:
[The Bill sets] ...an arbitrary [sic - in other words, a definite] time limit for the VA to act on applications for "relief." If the agency fails to act within 365 days, applicants could file a lawsuit asking a court to restore their gun privileges, even if Congress fails to provide the VA with the appropriate resources to process these investigations. Some prevailing applicants would be entitled to attorneys' fees.
GOA says:
True, they can hire a lawyer and beg the agency that took their rights away to voluntarily give them back. But the agency doesn't have to do anything but sit on its hands. And, after 365 days of inaction, guess what happens? The newly disarmed veteran can spend thousands of additional dollars to sue. And, as the plaintiff, the wrongly disarmed veteran has the burden of proof.
Language proposed by GOA would have automatically restored a veteran's gun rights if the agency sat on its hands for a year. Unfortunately, the GOA amendment was not included.
Thearticle says:
Even more troubling is the fact that the NRA Bashers are on the same side as the following noted anti-gun activists who oppose the bill:
I don't know where this comes from. The only thing that the anti's and pro's agreed on was their opposition to this bill. The anti's because it didn't go far enough, the pro's because it went too far. I note that the only people that they quote to oppose this bill are all anti's. Why don't they quote any pro-gunners?
I also don't like the way in which this bill was passed.
It was December 19. Most Congressmen had left town and were either at the airport or in the air returning home. They weren't in Washington, DC, because their party leadership had told them that all the major votes were over... that the only legislative business left related to non-controversial issues, such as when Congress would return from Christmas break, etc.
But it was then, with most of the Congress gone, that the House and Senate passed the Veterans Disarmament Act without a recorded vote. It was a huge deja vu, as this was the method that a previous Democratic Congress used -- together with compliant Republicans -- to pass the original Brady Law in 1993.
If it was such a good bill then why didn't it go up for a floor vote?
 

wrightme

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Where is the text that "locks in" supposedly barred veterans that were not in jeopardy before this act?

Nothing in the OP even supports a use of the act for the non-renewal of permit, and in fact, further posts regard the non-renewal of permit as a local SC issue, and not a national Act database "barring."


A diagnosis of PTSD is given as a reason in the OP, but there is nothing to indicate that the legislation of HR 2640 had a hand in the letter that began this thread.
 

KansasMustang

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Dustin wrote:
Out of my 70% Disability 30% is supposedly PTSD/Hyper Vigilence Disorder.

I guess it's good that I OC :uhoh:

This is sad and does worry me though.
Hyper vigilance disorder? Is that like situational awareness? Oh hell,,I have that too, it's called being alert of your sorroundings after being in "Injun territory" (sorry for the negative term I can say it cuz I'm part ;)) for too long where there's folks tryna kill you.
It's called Situation Yellow alert by Front Sight Training. Guess it's okay tho'. Fear naught you're not the only one.
 

Dustin

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KansasMustang wrote:
Dustin wrote:
Out of my 70% Disability 30% is supposedly PTSD/Hyper Vigilence Disorder.

I guess it's good that I OC :uhoh:

This is sad and does worry me though.
Hyper vigilance disorder? Is that like situational awareness? Oh hell,,I have that too, it's called being alert of your sorroundings after being in "Injun territory" (sorry for the negative term I can say it cuz I'm part ;)) for too long where there's folks tryna kill you.
It's called Situation Yellow alert by Front Sight Training. Guess it's okay tho'. Fear naught you're not the only one.

Pretty much, that's what it says in my records. Evidently the Wizard thought i was a little edgy :cool:

It is tiresome to go to walmart so many people, so many potential criminals, makes me nervous, but not freaked out crazy. Just AWAKE.
 

Doug Huffman

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From a submarine I did not see ground-pounder combat that my brothers did but I still can't go to a mall or big-box store without being 'fatigued shortly'. And, yes, it is less stressful when/while I am armed. My SO is pleased that she is able to shop without me tagging along long faced and standing against the wall.

After a particularly long and 'exciting' mission we had a senior PO long time shipmate (RM1) go ashore with his seabag and dare someone to try to make him walk on a ship again. The senior enlisted on board, the COB, took Antabuse and drank anyway, puking until he was too drunk to puke. He held my head up and to one side while I was puking straight-up. We all dealt with stress differently.
 

Tomahawk

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The following is item 13 from the latest VA Alert email that VCDL sends out every few days. It's long, but I've highlighted the relevant text. My notes follow:
**************************************************
13. Brady plans revealed in Korwin's Gun Law Update
**************************************************

Gun-rights author Alan Korwin sent this out:

POINT THREE

Sarah Brady is asking Obama to "close the deadly holes in our current
laws that allow terrorists to buy guns." This is a solution in search
of a problem, since terrorists already can't legally buy guns. Brady
president Paul Helmke talks instead of blocking "suspected
terrorists." That could mean anyone.

It's a back door way to vastly expand the NICS Index -- the list of
prohibited possessors that reportedly includes more than ten million
Americans. Once you're on, it can be next to impossible to get off, so
making it larger serves the goal of the gun banners wonderfully. Many
(but not all) currently in the NICS index are violent felons and other
low-lifes who belong there.

It's not completely clear who they'd like to add, but in the past, an
effort was made to grant arbitrary authority to the Attorney General
to add names to terrorism "watch lists." This would prevent those
people from air travel and place other restrictions on civil
liberties. Sort of like Guantanamo detainees without the need to be
caught shooting at Americans on a battlefield. Anyone on that list
would be automatically banned by a NICS check, and those checks would
no longer be limited to retail purchases from dealers.

FYI, if you're placed on the NICS list, it suggests you're a
prohibited possessor whether you are or not, so any guns or ammo you
already own or even touch could then constitute a felony. To a zealous
cop or judge, a NICS listing might require you to prove your
innocence, a nightmare of legal problems. That list should be
scrupulously accurate and easily corrected, tasks government is known
to do worse than their "management" of the economy.

Just for the record, any actual terrorist is totally banned from
buying or having guns in this country, but they could hardly care less
about lists kept in West Virginia by the FBI. Terrorist by definition
means "We smuggle weapons you can't even get, easier than you can buy
a bag of cocaine in any America city."

An aside -- these "terrorists" (generally a code name for radical
muslims) are determined to kill and blow up everything they can, and
they prove it around the world constantly, you needn't take my word
for it. They haven't done it here since 9/11 for one main reason --
president Bush, although hampered with constant attacks in the media
(which have now swayed large swaths of the public) has been killing
them off as fast as he can, before they can strike us here. He may
take a lot of flack, and be looked down upon by many, but he just may
be remembered as one of the greatest presidents we have ever had the
luck to have. Please don't write to complain to me about that. I'm
just noting that the muslims are killing everywhere but here, and
president Bush is leading that charge. What's the bumper sticker?
"Saving your butt, like it or not." OK, so he says he doesn't read a
lot, that's another discussion.

This, folks, is how veterans and other non-convicted persons will be prohibited from buying guns.

Since the government has decided it can make lists of people it doesn't like and arbitrarily prevent them from doing lawful business with airlines and other things, there's nothing stopping them from secretly placing your name on the NICS reject list as well.

Ignore all Korwin's ironic and sycophantic defense of Bush; Bush is responsible for much of this.
 

KansasMustang

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I was listening to a talk radio program not long ago, was just before the election. I heard a black preacher who was a conservative,now don't take this wrong, . Don't find many black conservatives, altho' their number is growing, and black conservative preachers are a rare breed. He espoused all the good things that "Dubya" has done, and I was amazed. His list was very long. Now I am a big civil liberties kinda guy, so I really hate the concept of being watched over, but being "overwatched" does not bother me. Bless his heart, he may have screwed up often, but Dubya has kept the bastidges from hittin us again. I fear for our future, and wonder what this "test" that Joe Biden said was coming will be. Just hope I'm at home and not on the road when(if) it hits.
Keep your powder dry!
 

darthmord

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KansasMustang wrote:
I was listening to a talk radio program not long ago, was just before the election. I heard a black preacher who was a conservative,now don't take this wrong, . Don't find many black conservatives, altho' their number is growing, and black conservative preachers are a rare breed. He espoused all the good things that "Dubya" has done, and I was amazed. His list was very long. Now I am a big civil liberties kinda guy, so I really hate the concept of being watched over, but being "overwatched" does not bother me. Bless his heart, he may have screwed up often, but Dubya has kept the bastidges from hittin us again. I fear for our future, and wonder what this "test" that Joe Biden said was coming will be. Just hope I'm at home and not on the road when(if) it hits.
Keep your powder dry!

I don't deny that no further attacks on US soil have been committed since 9/11 but I have to wonder at theprice tag that security came with.

Did we truly get our money's worth?
 

rodbender

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darthmord wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
I was listening to a talk radio program not long ago, was just before the election. I heard a black preacher who was a conservative,now don't take this wrong, . Don't find many black conservatives, altho' their number is growing, and black conservative preachers are a rare breed. He espoused all the good things that "Dubya" has done, and I was amazed. His list was very long. Now I am a big civil liberties kinda guy, so I really hate the concept of being watched over, but being "overwatched" does not bother me. Bless his heart, he may have screwed up often, but Dubya has kept the bastidges from hittin us again. I fear for our future, and wonder what this "test" that Joe Biden said was coming will be. Just hope I'm at home and not on the road when(if) it hits.
Keep your powder dry!

I don't deny that no further attacks on US soil have been committed since 9/11 but I have to wonder at theprice tag that security came with.

Did we truly get our money's worth?

I don't deny thatthere were no furtherattackson U.S. soil by Germany or Italy or Japan since Dec. 7th, 1941, but I have to wonder at the price tag that security came with.

Did we truly get our money's worth?
 

Tomahawk

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darthmord wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
I was listening to a talk radio program not long ago, was just before the election. I heard a black preacher who was a conservative,now don't take this wrong, . Don't find many black conservatives, altho' their number is growing, and black conservative preachers are a rare breed. He espoused all the good things that "Dubya" has done, and I was amazed. His list was very long. Now I am a big civil liberties kinda guy, so I really hate the concept of being watched over, but being "overwatched" does not bother me. Bless his heart, he may have screwed up often, but Dubya has kept the bastidges from hittin us again. I fear for our future, and wonder what this "test" that Joe Biden said was coming will be. Just hope I'm at home and not on the road when(if) it hits.
Keep your powder dry!

I don't deny that no further attacks on US soil have been committed since 9/11 but I have to wonder at theprice tag that security came with.

Did we truly get our money's worth?
There haven't been any volcanic eruptions in the US since Bush took office. Good job, Bush! Here, take all my freedom and money to protect me from voclanos!
 

Doug Huffman

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Tomahawk wrote:
There haven't been any volcanic eruptions in the US since Bush took office. Good job, Bush! Here, take all my freedom and money to protect me from volcanoes!
++++++++++1

Is the Glow Bull Warning that is blamed on him worth not having any eruptions of volcanoes? Correlation is not cause. We still suffer other eruptions.
 

Tess

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A quote I remember from the Gun Rights Policy Conference this fall was the NRA representative saying "We supported this, and no one has come forth to complain, so we must have been right" (paraphrased; my actual notes are on a flash drive I don't have to hand right now).

I remember thinking at the time no one in his right mind would go to the NRA for help on this -- the NRA had shown they're okay with letting someone lose his rights and have to fight to get them back, just so they can put a tick in the W column for congressional relations.
 

KansasMustang

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Tomahawk wrote:
darthmord wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
I was listening to a talk radio program not long ago, was just before the election. I heard a black preacher who was a conservative,now don't take this wrong, . Don't find many black conservatives, altho' their number is growing, and black conservative preachers are a rare breed. He espoused all the good things that "Dubya" has done, and I was amazed. His list was very long. Now I am a big civil liberties kinda guy, so I really hate the concept of being watched over, but being "overwatched" does not bother me. Bless his heart, he may have screwed up often, but Dubya has kept the bastidges from hittin us again. I fear for our future, and wonder what this "test" that Joe Biden said was coming will be. Just hope I'm at home and not on the road when(if) it hits.
Keep your powder dry!

I don't deny that no further attacks on US soil have been committed since 9/11 but I have to wonder at theprice tag that security came with.

Did we truly get our money's worth?
There haven't been any volcanic eruptions in the US since Bush took office. Good job, Bush! Here, take all my freedom and money to protect me from voclanos!
Tomahawk GMAFB man what freedoms are we gonna lose with the ObamaNation? I'm betting we lose most of em. Dubya isn't the best and I'm not a republican, but I am for freedom. And I've not been severely hampered in that yet. But the time will come. Just me sayin it.
 

GumiBear

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Ok help me out here, I'm riding the Paranoid Freak Train;
What I gather from the articles and comments here is that our most capable of firearm handlers aka Combat Verterans, are the ones that are being pinpointed first for disarmament. A Combat Verteran can be anyone from any branch that wound up in a combat zone. People that are highly trained in the art of weaponry and that have had to use them in combat are the ones to be disarmed. That makes me worry. You don't even have to be diagnosed with PTSD to get on the NCIS list, your name is enter and it will be hell to get it off. All of us that have had dealings with the government knows it happens all the time. Some goof buts some crap in your record and it is hell to get rid of it. Will the day come when your military performance reports could be used to get you on the list? We have all seen the news reports of normal folks getting on the list and being denied air travel, makes me wonder if these same folks tried to buy a gun if they would be denied that too. My main concern is the disarmament of anyone who has seen combat, those that are civilians now, but are well trained in the use of arms. Scarey!

Communist To Do List:
1. Disarm the most experienced and capable of firearm handlers
2. Disarm the rest
3. Take over Country
 

KansasMustang

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Gumibear, EXACTLY. The Leftists know full well who will be the first and most experienced so they'll come after us first. I've always known this so, Im sure that I'll be diagnosed by some "authority" as paranoid schizophrenic or some such s*#t and either disarmed or sent to a "facility" for "treatment". Stay alert/stay alive. dammit this pisses me off.
 

KansasMustang

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Don't NEED to "QUOTE" it, read it get the gist of it, sounds like BS smells like BS probably is BS. Now can you quote the Declaration of Independence ? Sounds to me like you're a TROLL.
 

wrightme

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No, I am most definitely not a troll. I just am realistic. Where in the bill does it disarm vets? In fact, the thread starter does not reference a "disarming." Fearmongering from a brief read and jumping to conclusions on "intent" does nothing to help the cause of either OC, CC, or 2nd amendment.

The information I have read on the bill in question does not disarm vets. It DOES provide remedy paths for anyone who is listed and disarmed falsely.
 
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