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Thread: Va. "gun-show loophole" bill taking center stage today?

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...060407/146208/

    Published: December 9, 2008

    The Virginia State Crime Commission meets today to decide what legislation to back for the 2009 General Assembly session, and a gun-show loophole measure is expected to come up for discussion.

    Several special-interest groups are expected to attend this morning's session in Richmond to lobby the commission to close the so-called loophole.

    It allows people to sell firearms at gun shows without conducting background checks on purchasers.

    The commission undertook a study of the issue this year following the defeat of legislation that would have required criminal background checks on all firearms transactions at gun shows.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    From yesterday's VCDL mini-update.



    ************************************************** *************
    3. ACTION ITEM REMINDER: Virginia Crime Commission to have hearing
    on closing the non-existent "gun show loophole" THIS TUESDAY!
    ************************************************** *************

    At 10 AM on Tuesday, December 9, in Senate Room A of the General
    Assembly Building (9th and Broad in Richmond), the Virginia State
    Crime Commission is going to discuss the so called "gun show
    loophole" bill. We need to make sure it is clear that Virginia does
    not need to change the law on private sales at gun shows or anywhere
    else.

    I will be there at 9:45 with "Gun Save Lives" stickers for those who
    can come to show support.

    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/stat...-gunshow-sales

    The Associated Press
    © December 9, 2008 By DENA POTTER
    RICHMOND
    The Virginia State Crime Commission put off a decision on whether to recommend legislation closing the so-called gun-show loophole Tuesday, but promised to do so before the General Assembly convenes in January.
    Victims and family members of those injured or killed by a student gunman in 2007 at Virginia Tech pleaded with the commission to support closing the loophole, in which private sellers at gun shows are not required to perform the background checks on buyers that commercial dealers must provide.
    Others, most carrying weapons, asked members not to confuse the issue with the tragedy at Virginia Tech because Seung-Hui Cho did not buy the two guns he used to kill 32 others and himself from a gun show.
    Some victims' family members accused commission chairman Del. David Albo of putting off a vote to protect fellow Republicans on the commission who oppose further checks.
    Sen. Kenneth W. Stolle and Del. Rob Bell, both Republicans, tried to kill a vote on a technicality, saying that the commission's charge was to study federal and state laws concerning gun shows and not to recommend changes to the law.
    Albo agreed, but said the commission usually studies issues then recommends legislation. He said he simply wanted everyone involved to be aware before a vote was taken.
    "This is not an effort for me to wimp out on a vote. I like record checks at gun shows," Albo said. "My ruling is one of procedure that I don't think that the General Assembly or committees or the Crime Commission should be taking action on things that the public wasn't properly" given notice.
    The issue was listed among eight others under the heading "Possible Legislation" on the commission's agenda.
    Albo said he would call another meeting in January to vote on the issue but would not take comment from any of the 15 individuals who spoke Tuesday.
    "I was slightly disappointed, but I know that's what politics is," Omar Samaha, 25, whose sister Reema was killed at Virginia Tech, said afterward. "They're trying to keep the guys who are going to give a no vote out of the hot water right now, but that's the way it works. But we'll be back. We're going to keep doing this until it gets changed."
    Proposals to require checks of private sellers at gun shows have been proposed for the past five years, but the effort gained fury last winter when the Virginia Tech families got behind it.
    Despite their support, legislators killed the bill and sent it to the Crime Commission for study.
    Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, reminded the commission that even if the checks were required, it would not have prevented the Virginia Tech shootings. Cho purchased a Glock 9mm at a Virginia gun store and a .22-caliber pistol over the Internet.
    "Evil is just a tough thing to legislate out of the world," he said. "I wish you could do it, but you can't."
    But the families said if Cho hadn't been able to buy his weapons he likely would have turned to a private dealer at a gun show.
    "The next one is coming. Are any of you really willing to take the chance that the next mass killing might be by a person that gets his gun from a gun show just because he knew he could avoid a background check?" Lori Haas, whose daughter Emily was shot but survived, asked legislators.
    Lily Habtu, 23, said her family brought her to Virginia from Africa when she was 5 to get away from violence. She said they never imagined she would be shot twice — in the face and the wrist — while sitting in a classroom.
    A bullet remains lodged in Habtu's jaw.
    "By not closing the gun show loophole we are only protecting the criminals here, we are not undermining our Second Amendment rights to own guns," she told the commission.
    It was the first time Habtu publicly has spoken about the April 16, 2007 shootings. She said she would continue to do so until something changed.
    "I don't care if it takes a decade. I'm serious," she said. "No one should have to go through what I went through."


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    Regular Member dbc3804's Avatar
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    "I don't care if it takes a decade. I'm serious," she said. "No one should have to go through what I went through."

    And if someone there could have punched Cho's ticket, she would not have had to.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...49&FILTER=

    "By not closing the gun show loophole we are only protecting the
    criminals here"

    "This tragedy would have never happened had he not had access to
    guns," Habtu said. "I still can not fathom how this could happen here
    in America, of all places. . . . This is not the freedom that my
    family had searched for. This is not the American dream."


    I take great offense to an Immigrant coming to this country just to trash it, and calling me and my fellow patriots criminals.


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...394049&FILTER=

    "By not closing the gun show loophole we are only protecting the*
    criminals here"

    "This tragedy would have never happened had he not had access to*
    guns," Habtu said. "I still can not fathom how this could happen here*
    in America, of all places. . . . This is not the freedom that my*
    family had searched for. This is not the American dream."


    I take great offense* to an Immigrant coming to this country just to trash it, and calling me and my fellow patriots criminals.
    +1

    ETA: It's especially disgusting that these people are playing the victim card. They are not victims of anything remotely related to the issue at hand. They are victims of Seung-Hui Cho, who didn't happen to buy his guns at a gun show in the first place.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Do not forget that the state law proposal does not have an exception for Federally Licensed Gun Collectors. The federal license allows collectors to engage in interstate commerce. That means that licensed collectors can buy sell and trade with collectors from other states. Inside a state, there is no licensing requirement to buy, sell or trade. Virginia State Police cannot do background checks on North Carolina residents. Therefore what this bill does is make illegal federally licensed gun collecting activity at gun shows. Yup, this bill outlaws gun collecting at gun shows.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Do not forget that the state law proposal does not have an exception for Federally Licensed Gun Collectors. The federal license allows collectors to engage in interstate commerce. That means that licensed collectors can buy sell and trade with collectors from other states. Inside a state, there is no licensing requirement to buy, sell or trade. Virginia State Police cannot do background checks on North Carolina residents. Therefore what this bill does is make illegal federally licensed gun collecting activity at gun shows. Yup, this bill outlaws gun collecting at gun shows.
    Isn't that pretty much the same as banning the purchase of flowers from a nursery?

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    So, they are trying to mandate background checks on personal sales everywhere, or just at gun shows?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    So, they are trying to mandate background checks on personal sales everywhere, or just at gun shows?
    That would seem to be the important question, and one that I'm hesitant to raise.

    Most news articles seem to report that the desire among the anti-gun crowd is to ensure that all sales that take place "at gun shows" require background checks, but the implication seems to be that most of these folks do not realize that private sales between two individuals at any place or time, do not currently require background checks.

    I'm afraid if you phrase the objection in terms of "background checks aren't required anywhere else, so why at gun shows?" their reaction will be to escalate their efforts to require background checks for all private sales as well.

    In any case, enacting a law to require background checks for private sales only "at gun shows" is problematic at best. What would keep two individuals attending a gun show from meeting, agreeing to a sale, then stepping out to the parking lot, or driving across the street to conduct the actual transaction?

    It seems to me that it would be impossible to legislate "only at gun shows", which leaves the current status of legal private sales between individuals at high risk.

    TFred

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    Having a gun show law will only lead to outlawing ALL private sales anywhere in the state. It's their goal, anyhow.

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