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Thread: Had the cops called on me by Community Transit

  1. #1
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    Long story short, I was taking the 120 bus from Bothell to Lynnwood and was CCing my CZ 82 and had a .22 in a soft case. I sat down, and then realizing there had been a fare increase since my last ride (I paid $1.25 and the driver never said anything) got up and paid the extra quarter. The driver then asked me "Is that a firearm?" (refering to the .22) I said yes and he tried to tell me it was illegal to have on the bus. I tried to cite RCW 9.91.025 which specifically allows for the lawful carry of guns on busses but he cut me off claiming he "didn't know anything about that." I suggested he call his supervisor.

    He stopped the bus and turned the engine off and waited for a supervisor who also came with a Snohomish County Sheriff's Deputy. The deputy was very professional and polite. He never bothered with taking my handgun, or the rifle, and asked for my CPL and ID. He verified the CPL, his Seargent shook my hand and apologized for the inconvience and I got back on the bus, after verifying the rifle was unloaded. Once the driver started realizing that he had made an error he kept trying to apologize and I just told him to save it for my lawyer.

    I'm keeping this short, I've told this story more times today than I want. After I got to Lynnwood Transit Center, I wrote up a brief complaint and took steps to steps to secure a copy of the video from onboard the bus.

    The deputy who did the stop was at the transit center, and we wound up talking with a supervisor and explained the legality of carry of guns on the bus, and I introduced the supervisor to RCW 9.91.025. The deputy was also very well versed on open carry and told the supervisor a person can openly wear a gun in public without a CPL, or in a vehicle with one.

    I also spoke with the Assistant Transportation Manager who was also apologetic, and tried to tell me how cautious people are, and I should understand the reaction, etc... I said I didn't understand the reaction as the operators should be well versed on 9.91.025, especially if they had been driving for 18 years, as the driver who tried to kick me off the bus has been. In the end I thanked everyone for their time, and made it plain to CT that I would be consulting with a lawyer about this.

    Big waste of my time for something that should have been a non issue.

    The nice thing about the whole experience was the attitude and professional behavior of the deputies. They were very nice about the whole thing, never wanted to take my (loaded) handgun, and treated the whole thing like the non issue it was.

    One thing I found amusing, the CT supervisor never spoke to me, but made a point of removing some passengers from the bus (minors from what I saw) and putting them into his van.

    Further discussion later with CT supervisors showed an incredible lack of procedure or instruction to their operators on matters such as this. One deputy told me he knew nothing about what to expect when he arrived, only that there was a "man with a gun on the bus" to which he was assuming the worst. The driver didn't communicate well to his dispatcher, who in turn failed to probe for more information, and add to the whole mess, none of them were familiar with the state law that governs bus conduct!


  2. #2
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    We have come a long ways. Several years ago, no one would have known anything about the legality of open carry, particularly on a pubic bus.

    Great job! Sorry it took up some time, but every little bit of education moves us forward.

  3. #3
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    The sad thing is the driver had no idea I had a handgun, just the cased rifle...

    A supervisor at the transit center said to the deputy "I thought we had a policy against guns." The deputy responded that he doesn't enforce policy, only law.

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    We have come a long ways. Several years ago, no one would have known anything about the legality of open carry, particularly on a pubic bus.

    Great job! Sorry it took up some time, but every little bit of education moves us forward.
    Umm you have a rather amusing typo in your post too:P:shock:

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    The deputy responded that he doesn't enforce policy, only law.
    Classic. Buy that deputy a virtual beer.

  6. #6
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    Nice job to you and the responding officer's.

  7. #7
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    Yah, the cops were real good about the whole thing.

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    Well done, sv.

    Go get 'em.

    Nice to hear the cop's attitude about enforcing the law, not policy. Maybe send him a little complimentary note?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    The sad thing is the driver had no idea I had a handgun, just the cased rifle...

    A supervisor at the transit center said to the deputy "I thought we had a policy against guns." The deputy responded that he doesn't enforce policy, only law.
    Great response from the deputy!

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    Definitely send him and his supervisor a letter saying how things went. Cops get crap about how they are there just to ruin one guys life, or that they are picking on black people or whatever garbage people can come up with. They RARELY get a good job from anyone. He did a good job and that should go in his record, he did you a solid by backing you when you were right without being a dick or hassling you, so you should do him and his career a solid and write a letter. He will be very grateful.

    Good job knowing what your talking about and not acting like a ******* when confronted. You guys are already shaping of my image of OCer's.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Good job holding your ground and requesting a supervisor, SV. Also, kudos to the LEOs for knowing the law and acting so professionally. I hope you get satisfaction from your complaint and happiness from sending a complimentary letter regarding the LEO.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Wow..quite a story. Gold star for the LEO's.

    Thanks for sharing!

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    That was a stupid move by the bus driver if he thought you that much of a public threat why would he stop the bus and anger you. It makes you think about policy what if you were some crazy asshle and decided that was your breaking point, he just endangered everyones lives on the bus. Obviously this wasent the case but it makes you think, they could have called it in and had the cop pull the bus over on the route. great job by the deputy though he deserves a thank you letter.

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    It sounds like the bus driver was trying to follow what he thought was a law, rather than thinking he was a menace.

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    I understand that but I was refering to the steps that he had taken. If llib was a menace it would have impacted those peoples lives on the bus greatly rather than calling it in and let the police pull him over running his route. I'm happy to here that it ended with lib not having his guns taken like some others I have heard about.

  16. #16
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    Why was your ID and carry license checked?

    Do you have a stop and ID statute out there?



  17. #17
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Why was your ID and carry license checked?

    Do you have a stop and ID statute out there?

    No, we don't. That's the only thing (from what SV told me) that the deputies did wrong. But, at the same time, they won a whole LOT of brownie points in attitude, conduct and what they said. Enough that I believe SV was okay with handing over ID and CPL voluntarily when asked... and I know he's well aware of his rights not to do so.
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  18. #18
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    How was that wrong? Any carry in a vehicle requires a CPL, and in such a circumstance you are required to provide it to the Officer(s). He was confirmed to have been on the bus with the firearms after all (by the bus driver).

  19. #19
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    diesel556 wrote:
    How was that wrong? Any carry in a vehicle requires a CPL, and in such a circumstance you are required to provide it to the Officer(s). He was confirmed to have been on the bus with the firearms after all (by the bus driver).
    Cased, unloaded firearms do NOT require a CPL. Loaded pistols do... but officers can't check your CPL for carrying a firearm on or in a vehicle, since there's no reasonable suspicion that you're doing anything illegal. It's the same reason that they can't stop you for getting into a car and driving off to make sure you have a driver's license. If I remember correctly, WA State Troopers have an exception to this (in defiance to the state constitution, mind you), but any local PD's or County deputies do not have this exception.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    We have come a long ways. Several years ago, no one would have known anything about the legality of open carry, particularly on a pubic bus.

    Great job! Sorry it took up some time, but every little bit of education moves us forward.
    Umm you have a rather amusing typo in your post too:P:shock:
    Oh, man, I'm so embarrassed. The things a spell checker won't catch. I'll have to check that one out personally from now on. Good catch!


  21. #21
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    I ride the pubic bus every chane I can! Sadly she does not let me carry whil doing so though!





    :what:

  22. #22
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    The below quote implies to me that the Officer was justified in checking the CPL...

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Long story short, I was taking the 120 bus from Bothell to Lynnwood and was CCing my CZ 82 and had a .22 in a soft case....

  23. #23
    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Datacrypt1 wrote:
    The below quote implies to me that the Officer was justified in checking the CPL...

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Long story short, I was taking the 120 bus from Bothell to Lynnwood and was CCing my CZ 82 and had a .22 in a soft case....
    No one knew about the CZ. The entire event was over a cased rifle. Don't need a CPL for that. On or off the bus.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

  24. #24
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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    We have come a long ways. Several years ago, no one would have known anything about the legality of open carry, particularly on a pubic bus.

    Great job! Sorry it took up some time, but every little bit of education moves us forward.
    Umm you have a rather amusing typo in your post too:P:shock:
    Oh, man, I'm so embarrassed. The things a spell checker won't catch. I'll have to check that one out personally from now on. Good catch!
    Oh, I don't know. It was somewhat accurate. After all, the bus driver was being a _ _ _ _-head.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
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    So you only need a license to conceal a pistol, and not a rifle. Check.

    This might be a little off-topic, but just_a_car, it sounds like you are saying that the police couldn't demand to see a license even if his CZ was being openly carried on his waist?

    When does the "Shall display.." "...When and If required by law to do so" code kick in? Is it only if their is an articulable suspicion of a crime being committed? Even if you're in a vehicle?

    Does that mean that if I am in possession of dynamite, or other explosives according to this statute:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=70.74.022

    I would be OK to tell the Officer that he was violating my rights by requesting to see my license (unless he caught me lighting the fuse in the city, or performing another illegal act), and to bugger off?

    I would really like to know when I can, and can not refuse to display my CPL. I've come to understand it's absolutely not necessary while OC'ing outside of a vehicle, so some clarification about transport in a vehicle would be great (I'm in the process of grinding through http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...t=cpl+speeding )

    Thanks!

    EDIT: Should I ask this in a separate thread?

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