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Thread: Open Carry Petition !

  1. #1
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    When will this petition be used, and how many names are required ... at a minimum?



    http://www.petitiononline.com/scocp/petition.html

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    The petition itself may never be used, but its purpose is many. Right now it can be used to raise awareness and let people see they're not alone in wanting open carry. Possibly later it can be used to help sway the opinion of SC legislators. Either way, getting the word out and getting signatures is important.

    Unfortunately for us, participation is not what I had hoped for when initiating it. For example, Oklahoma, a state with about 2/3 the population of South Carolina, posted their petition the day after ours but has about three times the signatures. I don't know if it's apathy in our state or maybe the people just don't see the value of open carry. I do know that several members of the state's self proclaimed preeminent gun rights organization have told me that open carry is stupid. I also know I can’t get a mention of it on their website. It makes you wonder if the two are related.

    Somewhere near 10k flyers have been distributed at various gun shows, gun shops and gun events by my wife and I, out of pocket. I could have had a new Glock instead. I would certainly appreciate some help along the way and any ideas you or anyone has to make this work better than it has can only improve the situation.


    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    I have had poor success with a VERY similar site. There is more bickering than resolving there.

    Suggestions, yes I have one or two. One is to try and post with the Georgia Packing Site. they have a phenomenal response there. The attitude is positive, and they talk together, not “Down to”. http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/index.php?sid=68197c956657bdc08c189995c447dcf8

    Also about the only Carolina Site left. They are small but friendly. I think due to most of them being in NC http://www.carolinagunowners.com/Forum/

    Then there is a great Carry site http://www.usacarry.com/forums/

    I think the SC site has a few issues, one its no more than a bitch session when topics come open. They also do not have a forum site, the website is minimal at best. The ONLY major activity is to support or oppose bills. I respect that this is voluntary but geez.

    I refuse to donate money till I see the public interaction change. You would be better off starting a SC Open Carry Association. If you run it like This site and many of the other I have shown here, you will weed the jerks out pretty fast, and more “good” people would come in… or so I believe.

    I also suggest putting flyers in gun shops …. More guns in public would mean more sales for them ….



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    340mopar wrote:
    When will this petition be used, and how many names are required ... at a minimum?



    http://www.petitiononline.com/scocp/petition.html
    I think we can leverage the petiton right now - has anyone asked a legislator to sponsor an open carry bill?

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    Mike, H3003 is essentially an open carry bill since it does away with a section of code related to unlawful carry.

    The bill is there. It has several legislators names attached to it as well.

    Im looking into finding a few lawyers who are pro 2A and are willing to help an organization pro bono in an effort to see an alternative to the preemminent group.

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    AllAmerican wrote:
    Mike, H3003 is essentially an open carry bill since it does away with a section of code related to unlawful carry.

    The bill is there. It has several legislators names attached to it as well.

    Im looking into finding a few lawyers who are pro 2A and are willing to help an organization pro bono in an effort to see an alternative to the preemminent group.
    You are speaking in code here - please speak plainly - I have not had time to review the bill, which you did not link to - if the bill is in fact a bill to establish Vermont style OC and CC without permit, great, but I think SLED and others will have a real hard time with ther CC part so maybe we need to draft a subst. bill just making OC legal without permit as an option. Contact the SC petion founder nd see if he wants to form a SC OC working group - you don;t need lawyers to form an effective grass roots group!

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    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess118_...bills/3003.htm

    South Carolina General Assembly
    118th Session, 2009-2010 Download This Bill in Microsoft Word format
    Indicates Matter Stricken
    Indicates New Matter
    H. 3003
    STATUS INFORMATION
    General Bill
    Sponsors: Reps. Cooper, Harrell, Cato, Loftis, Gambrell, Thompson, Huggins, Sandifer, Owens, Littlejohn, Stringer, G.M. Smith, Kelly, Hardwick, Willis, Duncan, Herbkersman, Haley, Bedingfield, Rice, Spires, White, J.R. Smith, Parker, G.R. Smith, Toole, D.C. Smith, Lowe, Umphlett, Nanney, M.A. Pitts, Merrill and Wylie
    Document Path: l:councilbillsms7020ahb09.docx
    Prefiled in the House on December 9, 2008
    Currently residing in the House Committee on Judiciary
    Summary: Weapons
    HISTORY OF LEGISLATIVE ACTIONS

    Code:
    Date      Body   Action Description with journal page number
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    12/9/2008  House   Prefiled
    12/9/2008  House   Referred to Committee on Judiciary
    View the latest legislative information at the LPITS web site
    VERSIONS OF THIS BILL
    12/9/2008


    (Text matches printed bills. Document has been reformatted to meet World Wide Web specifications.)
    A BILL TO AMEND SECTION 16-23-460, AS AMENDED, CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, RELATING TO CONCEALED WEAPONS AND THE FORFEITURE OF WEAPONS WHEN A VIOLATION OCCURS, SO AS TO INCREASE THE FINE FOR A VIOLATION; TO AMEND SECTION 16-23-50, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PENALTIES FOR WEAPONS VIOLATIONS AND FORFEITURE OF HANDGUNS, SO AS TO DELETE OBSOLETE REFERENCES TO SECTION 16-23-20; TO AMEND SECTION 23-31-215, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE ISSUANCE OF CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS, SO AS TO SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATE THOSE PERSONS NOT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT; TO AMEND SECTION 23-31-220, RELATING TO THE RIGHT TO ALLOW CONCEALED WEAPONS UPON CERTAIN PREMISES, SO AS TO SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATE THOSE PERSONS THAT ARE EXEMPTED FROM THE PURVIEW OF THE STATUTE; TO AMEND SECTION 63-19-1210, RELATING TO TRANSFER OF JURISDICTION FOR CERTAIN JUVENILE OFFENSES, SO AS TO CORRECT A REFERENCE; AND TO REPEAL SECTION 16-23-20 RELATING TO THE UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A HANDGUN AND SECTION 23-31-217 RELATING TO THE EFFECT OF SECTION 16-23-20.
    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of South Carolina:
    SECTION 1. Section 16-23-460 of the 1976 Code, as last amended by Act 337 of 2008, is further amended to read:
    "Section 16-23-460. (A) A person carrying a deadly weapon usually used for the infliction of personal injury concealed about his person is guilty of a misdemeanor, must forfeit to the county, or, if convicted in a municipal court, to the municipality, the concealed weapon, and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than twofive hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollarsor imprisoned not less than thirty days nor more than ninety days, or both.
    (B) The provisions of this section do not apply to:
    (1) A person carrying a concealed weapon upon his own premises or pursuant to and in compliance with Article 4, Chapter 31 of Title 23; or
    (2) peace officers in the actual discharge of their duties.
    (C) The provisions of this section also do not apply to rifles, shotguns, dirks, slingshots, metal knuckles, knives, or razors unless they are used with the intent to commit a crime or in furtherance of a crime."
    SECTION 2. Section 16-23-50(A) of the 1976 Code is amended to read:
    "(A)(1) A person, including a dealer, who violates the provisions of this article, except Section 16-23-20, is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    (2) A person violating the provisions of Section 16-23-20 is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."
    SECTION 3. Section 23-31-215(O) of the 1976 Code is amended to read:
    "(O) A permit issued pursuant to this article is not required fora person:
    (1) specified in Section 16-23-20, items (1) through (5) and items (7) through (11)regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;
    (2) members of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Guard, organized reserves, or the State Militia when on duty;
    (3) members, or their invited guests, of organizations authorized by law to purchase or receive firearms from the United States or this State or regularly enrolled members, or their invited guests, of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting or collecting modern and antique firearms while these members, or their invited guests, are at or going to or from their places of target practice or their shows and exhibits;
    (4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;
    (5) a person regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, repossessing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of this person, while possessing, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
    (6) guards authorized by law to possess handguns and engaged in protection of property of the United States or any agency of the United States;
    (7) members of authorized military or civil organizations while parading or when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations;
    (8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance;
    (10) a person carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or fixed place of business or while in the process of changing or moving one's residence or changing or moving one's fixed place of business;
    (11) a prison guard while engaged in his official duties;
    (12) a person engaged in firearms-related activities while on the premises of a fixed place of business which conducts, as a regular course of its business, activities related to sale, repair, pawn, firearms training, or use of firearms, unless the premises is posted with a sign limiting possession of firearms to holders of permits issued pursuant to this article;
    (13) a person while transferring a handgun directly from or to a vehicle and a location specified by law where one may legally possess the handgun; (14) a person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle.
    (2)(15) a person carrying a self-defense device generally considered to be nonlethal including the substance commonly referred to as 'pepper gas'; or
    (3)(16) a person carrying a concealable weapon in a manner not prohibited by law."
    SECTION 4. Section 23-31-220 of the 1976 Code is amended to read:
    "Section 23-31-220. (A) Nothing contained in thisThis article shall in any waymay not be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon the right of a:
    (1) the right of apublic or private employer to prohibit a person who is licensed underpursuant to this article from carrying a concealable weapon upon the premises of the business or work place or while using any machinery, vehicle, or equipment owned or operated by the business; or
    (2) the right of aprivate property owner or person in legal possession or control to allow or prohibit the carrying of a concealable weapon upon his premises.
    (B) The posting by the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control of a sign stating 'No Concealable Weapons Allowed' shall constituteconstitutes notice to a person holding a permit issued pursuant to this article that the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control requests that concealable weapons not be brought upon the premises or into the work place. A person who brings a concealable weapon onto the premises or work place in violation of the provisions of this paragraphsubsection may be charged with a violation of Section 16-11-620. In addition to the penalties provided in Section 16-11-620, a person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this paragraphsubsection must have his permit revoked for a period of one year.
    (C) The prohibition contained in this sectionsubsection (B) does not apply to: persons specified in Section 16-23-20, item (1)
    (1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State;
    (2) uncompensated Governor's constables;
    (3) law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State;
    (4) deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources; and
    (5) retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators."
    SECTION 5. Section 63-19-1210(9) of the 1976 Code, as added by Act 361 of 2008, is amended to read:
    "(9) If a child fourteen years of age or older is charged with a violation of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, Section 16-23-430(1), Section 16-23-20,assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature, or Section 44-53-445, the court, after full investigation and hearing, if it considers it contrary to the best interest of the child or the public to retain jurisdiction, acting as committing magistrate, may bind over the child for proper criminal proceedings to a court which would have trial jurisdiction of the offenses if committed by an adult."
    SECTION 6. Sections 16-23-20 and 23-31-217 of the 1976 Code are repealed.
    SECTION 7. The repeal or amendment by this act of any law, whether temporary or permanent or civil or criminal, does not affect pending actions, rights, duties, or liabilities founded thereon, or alter, discharge, release or extinguish any penalty, forfeiture, or liability incurred under the repealed or amended law, unless the repealed or amended provision shall so expressly provide. After the effective date of this act, all laws repealed or amended by this act must be taken and treated as remaining in full force and effect for the purpose of sustaining any pending or vested right, civil action, special proceeding, criminal prosecution, or appeal existing as of the effective date of this act, and for the enforcement of rights, duties, penalties, forfeitures, and liabilities as they stood under the repealed or amended laws.
    SECTION 8. This act takes effect upon approval by the Governor.

    ----XX----
    This web page was last updated on December 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM

    ================================================== ==========
    But, it gets worse than just shuffling things around. H. 3003 deletes one of the exceptions currently allowed in Section 16-23-20. Thus, H. 3003 would leave us worse off than we are now. Plus, it increases penalties for mere possession of a concealed weapon even if there is no evidence of any other wrongdoing other than mere possession. Plus, current law provides that one must unlawfully discharge a firearm to commit a particular crime and H. 3003 deletes the requirement that the discharge be unlawful before a crime is committed. All in all, H. 3003 puts us into a worse place than existing law does. The only bright spot is that while Section 16-23-20 has penalties attached for violating the law, the reshuffling of the law fails to attach a penalty to open carry. But, I doubt that will stop the police from arresting you for breaking the law and then confiscating your gun as provided for under a different law. Plus, I doubt the legislature will let the oversight of an attached penalty make it through the entire legislative process before adding a penalty. I am still in the process of writing things out in a logical easy to read format. But, that takes time and I am having health problems right now. So, it will have to wait until this weekend. Rob
    [/code]


  8. #8
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    340mopar wrote:
    I have had poor success with a VERY similar site. There is more bickering than resolving there.


    Then there is a great Carry site http://www.usacarry.com/forums/

    I think the SC site has a few issues, one its no more than a bitch session when topics come open. They also do not have a forum site, the website is minimal at best. The ONLY major activity is to support or oppose bills. I respect that this is voluntary but geez.

    I refuse to donate money till I see the public interaction change. You would be better off starting a SC Open Carry Association. If you run it like This site and many of the other I have shown here, you will weed the jerks out pretty fast, and more “good” people would come in… or so I believe.

    I also suggest putting flyers in gun shops …. More guns in public would mean more sales for them ….
    Thanks for turning me onto the usacarry site. Good stuff there.

    Im in agreement about the SC site you mentioned and all the things you said about it. In fact if you go to their forum (yes I think its a joke) you'll see where I echo'd your statements here to them.


  9. #9
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    340mopar wrote:
    When will this petition be used, and how many names are required ... at a minimum?



    http://www.petitiononline.com/scocp/petition.html
    I listen to News Talk Radio WORD out of Greenville. Someone called during the "drive home" show and discussed the petition!!

    I don't think it was a member here, but either way - PROPS!

  10. #10
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    I am sure you got a bit of attitude about it too, but they need to know how we feel. Even if they can not or will not do anything about it.

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