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Thread: Online CHP Course Declined in Albemarle County

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    My buddy put in for his CHP just over 45 days ago, went down to the court house yesterday to see what the deal was. They told him that they couldn't find it, and they "think they may have given it to someone else." Needless to say, he wasn't very happy. The clerk called him back a few hours later to say that she found his application and it was sitting on the judges desk, waiting to be signed. He ended the evening relieved, hoping to get his permit today. He called this morning, the clerk said his safety course had been declined by the judge, and that the judge "would be making some phone calls to figure things out."

    Is the acceptance of this course really just up to the individual judge? The certificate is signed by the instructor, and says "NRA Certified Instructor" under the signiture. The VSP site says "private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association". Seems to fit the description....

    I've heard of people being declined due to this course, anyone have luck getting that reversed?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Contact VCDL immediately, and if you haven't joined, join them.

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Contact VCDL immediately, and if you haven't joined, join them.
    +1 - http://www.vcdl.org/

    Call or email.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    My buddy put in for his CHP just over 45 days ago, went down to the court house yesterday to see what the deal was. They told him that they couldn't find it, and they "think they may have given it to someone else." Needless to say, he wasn't very happy. The clerk called him back a few hours later to say that she found his application and it was sitting on the judges desk, waiting to be signed. He ended the eveing relieved, hoping to get his permit today. He caled this morning, the clerk said his safety course had been declined by the judge, and that the judge "would be making some phone calls to figure things out."

    Is the acceptance of this course really just up to the individual judge? The certificate is signed by the instructor, and says "NRA Certified Instructor" under the signiture. The VSP sait says "private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association". Seems to find the description....

    I've heard of people being declined due to this course, anyone have luck getting that reversed?
    OK, First, if the Judge did not deny the application, and send him a copy of the denial, your buddy needs to demand his de facto permit from the Clerk - Period. That;s the law. The Clerk must SEND him the de facto permit good for 45 days.

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    He has not been fully declined yet, I told him to go demand his temporary permit, but he hasn't done so yet. He'll be calling VCDL in a bit to see what they recommend.

    What's the process if it is actually declined? Lawyer up and visit the judge?

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    nova wrote:

    Yes. Go through the appeals process.[/quote]

    Thanks. Any recomendation as to which of the four numbers to call?

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Contact VCDL immediately, and if you haven't joined, join them.
    Well, VCDL wasn't very helpful. Called the 804 number on their site, the guy said he wasn't familiar with the class or the situation, and that it didn't sound to him like it met the requirement. He did say to go to the clerks off and demand the temp permit though.

    He's gonna swing by tomorrow morning and get the temp, assuming he doesn't get declined by then.

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    Even if he was denied, he has the right to request a hearing and present his case.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Contact VCDL immediately, and if you haven't joined, join them.
    Well, VCDL wasn't very helpful. Called the 804 number on their site, the guy said he wasn't familiar with the class or the situation, and that it didn't sound to him like it met the requirement. He did say to go to the clerks off and demand the temp permit though.

    He's gonna swing by tomorrow morning and get the temp, assuming he doesn't get declined by then.
    (emphasis added)

    Maybe its just me; but I tend to be a little defensive of VCDL. So, I'm gonna play defense. Gently, in case Lep. didn't really mean anything by it.

    Realize that VCDL is not really a free gun question help desk. The main point in contacting them in this case would be to REPORT a problem with permit issuance, say arbitrary/illegal refusal by a judge. This puts the problem on their radar. But you also have to be sure of the problem so your report is accurate. It looks like, just based on the OP, it is entirely possible the judge is trying to satisfy himselfwhether an on-line course meets the requirements. For all I know he may be trying to verify whether the course instructor is really NRA certified--I'm notsaying this isvalid; we just don't know what the judge is really doing.

    I'm not entirely sure there was enough detail to be able to make a useful report to VCDL. I think the friend needs to ask the clerk for specifics on why the hold up, or just wait for permit or refusal before we can really have enough to go on.

    Getting the temp. permit is a separate matter from the VCDL report on the certificate question. But, the call taker did offer that advice, which I assume was in fact helpful, even if it only confirmed what was already suggested here.



    Separately, both Lep. and friend should join VCDL. Membership is literally less than the cost of the CHP--$25.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I didn't intend to offend anyone. I'm aware of all that VCDL has done for gun owners, and am thankful for that. I guess my wording was a little harsh, I should have said "a quick call didn't provide much insight into a not yet devoloped problem."

    I understand there may be a legitimate reason for the delay, although I'm sure the judge's research hasn't taken 50 days to complete. We'll see what happens tomorrow, hopefully the judge will be satisfied with the course and issue the permit.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    That is now the 3rd or 4thlocality that I have heard to deny the online course.

    By my count...

    Albemarle

    Chesterfield

    Nottoway

    any others? I seem to remember somewhere in the HR area that denied the online course.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    ProShooter wrote:
    That is now the 3rd or 4thlocality that I have heard to deny the online course.

    By my count...

    Albemarle

    Chesterfield

    Nottoway

    any others? I seem to remember somewhere in the HR area that denied the online course.
    Hmmm.

    You might pass that along to forum member VCDL President. There may be something developing. Any additional information as to the rationale for the denials might help.

    They may not act on it until Spring, given that the General Assembly will be in session and VCDL will be very busy. Butthey might like tostart compiling the data.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Sadly, if he does get declined he's not going to go through appeals. He reasons it'll be cheaper to take another class than to hire a lawyer. Hopefully he won't be denied.

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    You can represent yourself and explain that the training met the requirements and that is should be accepted. Might not go anywhere, but at least you stood up and held them accountable.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The people who stand to lose the most here are the ones who own and run the on-line training web site.

    Perhaps if they are informed that a customer is getting grief, they will provide some support.

    If it becomes public knowledge that their course does not meet the requirement, they would stand to lose a lot of business. I would think this possibility would motivate them to help in any way they can.

    TFred


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    I was talking to an acquaintance over the weekend who was going to take the class. I told him there were some localities who were not accepting it and it might be cheaper in the long run to take proshooters class.

    To be honest, it sounds kind of stupid to take an online class. Kind of like getting your preachers certification online.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    He has not been fully declined yet, I told him to go demand his temporary permit, but he hasn't done so yet. He'll be calling VCDL in a bit to see what they recommend.

    What's the process if it is actually declined? Lawyer up and visit the judge?
    You are missing the point entirely - right now the Clerk of Court is breaking the law.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    You are missing the point entirely - right now the Clerk of Court is breaking the law.
    +1

    Long Live http://www.tinyurl.com/vachp!!! I have turned many people onto this site... not to complete their training.. but just so thay have the basics and don't point at others or put their finger on the trigger UNTIL they can take an in person professional course.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ed wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    You are missing the point entirely - right now the Clerk of Court is breaking the law.
    +1

    Long Live http://www.tinyurl.com/vachp!!! I have turned many people onto this site... not to complete their training.. but just so thay have the basics and don't point at others or put their finger on the trigger UNTIL they can take an in person professional course.
    Everybody's got to start somewhere!

    Also for those with a good background, this is the quickest way that I know to satisfy the requirement if they do not have any other paper in hand.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    peter nap wrote:
    I was talking to an acquaintance over the weekend who was going to take the class. I told him there were some localities who were not accepting it and it might be cheaper in the long run to take proshooters class.
    Thank you Peter. I truly appreciate the recommendation.

    Jim
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    I understand that there at fault right now, he'll be at the court house tomorrow morning at 8am. I'll let him know that he doesn't need an attorney for the appeal. I'll recommend he contacts the school, they're located somewhere in the newport news area.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    I understand that there at fault right now, he'll be at the court house tomorrow morning at 8am. I'll let him know that he doesn't need an attorney for the appeal. I'll recommend he contacts the school, they're located somewhere in the newport news area.
    Let us know what happens.

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    Oh, and he isn't taking the course to learn about guns, he been a hunter his whole life and has quite a collection of rifles, hand guns and ARs. Meeting the CHP requirement is the only reason for the class.

    I'll be sure to keep the masses updated. He's printing the VSP website stuff to take with him as well. Let's hope for the best.

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    I don't mean to in any way discourage anyone from holding the court clerks and their staff accountable to fully comply with their duties as outlined by the Virginia Code.

    At the same time, it's always important to remember that we need to be respectful in our interactions. This issue is extremely important to us who frequent these forums, but for many of the folks who will be encountered in this sort of a situation, it's 9 to 5 with a half hour for lunch, and they are understaffed, underpaid, and overworked, and this piece of paper is just the next on the list to process, along with the hundreds of others that they might encounter in a typical day of work.

    While there may be some who drag it out on ideological grounds, I suspect for the most part, they are just trying to do their job, earn their check, pick up the kids, and head home for dinner, all the while trying to maintain a small bit of sanity.

    Of course, having said all that... The law is the law, and none of the above excuses would get you out of a speeding ticket.

    I'm just saying there is probably a balance, so be sure to not go into a situation with an attitude. We don't want to foster a stereotype of "another one of those jerky CHP dudes".

    This is my opinon, and mine alone... Take it for what ever value you wish to give it.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    SNIP This is my opinon, and mine alone... Take it for what ever value you wish to give it.
    I'll give it high value. Its a good point.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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