Online CHP Course Declined in Albemarle County

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hometheaterman wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

hometheaterman wrote:

I know this is off topic sort of but a friend asked me and I have no idea. Anyone know what is required for a chp in Albemarle County other than one of the approved classes?

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The same thing as in any other county in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Yata hey

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Isn't it up the county what you need? Like some require fingerprints and some don't? At least I thought it was up to them on some things like that.

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just the fingerprint part

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How many people taking this online course have never handled a gun? Anyone know I don't. I know some people who have been hunting and shooting for years that have taken it just to meet the requirement for CHP.

Also how many have gone to a gun show paid the $50 and sat through a class room lecture and got their CHP? Also no shooting/handling required in that class.

Not all classroom CHP classes have a shooting and handling component, you sit through the lecture, watch some demonstrations, take a written test and get your certificate. No different than doing the same thing on a computer.


When my sons were 9 and 12 they took hunter safety. They sat through the lecture, took the test,than walked around in the woods looking at some target setups and told the instructor whether the shot was safe or not, no shooting or handling. That hunter safety card is good for them to get a CHP. Their shooting and handlingexperience was my responsibility.

My wife knows how to handle guns, he**if she wanted she could probably out shoot me at the range. Because of where we live and the need to travel long distance to a commercial range and availability of an instructor the online class is the best option for her at this time. And I would trustmy wife or sonsto back me upany time!

Do I like the idea that any yahoo who knows nothing about firearm safety, andhas never handled a firearm can buy one strap it on his hip and walk around like Matt Dillon? No, but that's already possible.

As a responsible gun owner I do my part to make sure that people I know at leasthave basic safety knowledge as all gun owners should.
:cuss:

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Well, I wasn't asking you, but since you decided to climb on board, here are some thoughts.

crazydude6030 wrote:

Do you not care about the chance of someone running around with a gun and no idea how to use it? Does that not even remotely alarm anyone? I don't think it's as big aproblem as somepeoplewould make it out to be. Do you have any data that suggests that large percentages of first time gun handlers are causing death and destruction in the streets?Any idea how many ND's occur with novices? Lots of things alarm me, but there is nothing I can do about them.

Flame me if you like i feel my concern is some what validated. I have first hand witnessed a first time gun buyer get his gun then walk down the hall to the indoor range and proceed to shoot 100 rounds and only hitting the paper with about 20 shots. Then this person put on a holster he just bought and walked out the door with his gun on his hip. I know for a fact if he ever needed that gun the chance of him hitting someone else was higher than it was him hitting the bad guy. You know this for a fact? I've seen LEO's at the range that made me nervous. They get some training right?

You cant tell me that 100 rounds with a hand gun or a pistol shooting a 20% accuracy warrants it being a good idea for him to carry. Sure its his right and its everyone's right. I'm not trying to tell you anything. I simply asked someone else a question. Here are a couple ofquestions for you. How many rounds did you practice with before you put a gun on your hip? Was your hit rate100% before you went into public with a gun? What is the acceptable accuracy required?

That said I'll answer your question. No, I don't think there should be required training. Good. Then we agree.

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To be honest with you, I'm more concerned with the number of jerk-offs I see driving around with a phone stuck to the side of their head. You can't tell me that they are actually paying attention to safe driving practices. I know for a fact that if they had to react to a situation, they would be slower than I and much less safe. However, I'm not going to start wringing my hands and losing sleep.

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buster81 wrote:

I don't think it's as big aproblem as somepeoplewould make it out to be. Do you have any data that suggests that large percentages of first time gun handlers are causing death and destruction in the streets?Any idea how many ND's occur with novices? Lots of things alarm me, but there is nothing I can do about them.

Do I have data? No, but i judge off of my life experiences and what I have experienced has made me to believe that though it is a right to carry, not everyone should use that right. I just think urging people to get a good feel for their gun and learning how to shoot and use it correctly would benefit us more. I would hate to see someone open carrying end up using a gun incorrectly and read about it in the paper for weeks. I just think that would hurt the open carry cause.

You know this for a fact? I've seen LEO's at the range that made me nervous. They get some training right?

I have seen leos's do a lot of things. I have nearly been hit by one running a stop sign only to have him tail for to my house. I can only assume he wanted to pull me over and write me a tax slip.. i mean ticket.

And lets not forget the ones I have over heard utter comments that would make most people wonder why he is in uniform to start with.

I'm not trying to tell you anything. I simply asked someone else a question. Here are a couple ofquestions for you. How many rounds did you practice with before you put a gun on your hip? Was your hit rate100% before you went into public with a gun? What is the acceptable accuracy required?

I grew up around rifles. I have been shooting pistols for about 6 months or so now (that is when i can find ammo). I would like to think that hitting the paper at the very least 100% of the time at 25 yards would work.

As for me? I haven't put a gun on my hip yet because I simply do not feel I could react in a positive way. I am hoping to start this summer if I can get enough work in. Once i get good muscle memory down where I can hit the my target without much effort then I'll be good to go.

Good. Then we agree.

I am never going to be for more government regulation. While we might disagree on a few things I am pretty sure that's one thing most of us here will agree on.

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to be honest with you, I'm more concerned with the number of jerk-offs I see driving around with a phone stuck to the side of their head. You can't tell me that they are actually paying attention to safe driving practices. I know for a fact that if they had to react to a situation, they would be slower than I and much less safe. However, I'm not going to start wringing my hands and losing sleep.

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Yep, i agree with you here as well. Oh, and people who drive SUV's and cant seem to park them into a parking space with out backing up 30 times. :lol:

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crazydude6030 wrote:

Yep, i agree with you here as well. Oh, and people who drive SUV's and cant seem to park them into a parking space with out backing up 30 times. :lol:

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True that! Undoubtedly it's a single person in the giant SUV.

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crazydude6030 wrote:

....people who drive SUV's and cant seem to park them into a parking space with out backing up 30 times. :lol:

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Huh? I drive a Ford Excursion and would have no trouble parking!

But I never have to back up anyway, I just crawl over whoever was dumb enough to park in front of me. :lol:

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Sheriff wrote:

crazydude6030 wrote:

....people who drive SUV's and cant seem to park them into a parking space with out backing up 30 times. :lol:

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Huh? I drive a Ford Excursion and would have no trouble parking!

But I never have to back up anyway, I just crawl over whoever was dumb enough to park in front of me. :lol:

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:shock: Remind me not to park where you want to go

It never fails. When ever I am leaving wally world there is always some clown who cant seem to park what they drive. I have sat stuck in a lane watching some guy back in and out trying to get his fat truck or suv into a parking spot that is clearly to small for it. :cuss:

EDIT: maybe it wouldn't bother me if i could at least find ammo at wally world once in a blue moon.

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crazydude6030 wrote:

It never fails. When ever I am leaving wally world there is always some clown who cant seem to park what they drive. I have sat stuck in a lane watching some guy back in and out trying to get his fat truck or suv into a parking spot that is clearly to small for it.

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If they are driving, the correct term is "ass clown"

I do not have a cite for that.

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crazydude6030 wrote:

Sheriff wrote:

crazydude6030 wrote:

....people who drive SUV's and cant seem to park them into a parking space with out backing up 30 times. :lol:

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Huh? I drive a Ford Excursion and would have no trouble parking!

But I never have to back up anyway, I just crawl over whoever was dumb enough to park in front of me. :lol:

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It never fails. When ever I am leaving wally world there is always some clown who cant seem to park what they drive. I have sat stuck in a lane watching some guy back in and out trying to get his fat truck or suv into a parking spot that is

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That is because the people who shop at wally world took their driver's course on line.

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kenny wrote:

That is because the people who shop at wally world took their driver's course on line.

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Post of the week!

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ProShooter wrote:

kenny wrote:

That is because the people who shop at wally world took their driver's course on line.

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Post of the week!

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Rut roh! Can't pass up this opportunity.

Taking a driver's course online, without hands on training, is just as dangerous as a CHP applicant taking an online course with no hands on training!

Bet ya didn't see that coming! :lol:

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There seems to have been a considerable digression from the topic at hand on the last several pages in this thread (I know, what a shock!).

It doesn't matter that it bothers you that someone might get a concealed carry permit without a hands-on class. It doesn't matter if you think the judge in this case is a great gal. It doesn't matter what you feel.

What's the excuse for the judge not to follow the law? What's the justification? Why is she above the law, but us little folks have to obey obtuse legislation that was never read by half the people who voted for it? (Sorry, my own little digression there.)

Even nice people are corrupted by power. And abuse of the procedure laid down by law just because someone like this judge has the power to do so (until someone more powerful, and more responsible, holds their feet to the fire) is corruption.

And vague "something else must be going on here" excuses don't matter. That's why there's a procedure. That's why the judge must be forced to follow the procedure as laid down in the law. Why should a judge be allowed to pick and choose which laws she's going to follow and enforce, and ignore or change the others?

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TexasNative wrote:

It doesn't matter that it bothers you that someone might get a concealed carry permit without a hands-on class. It doesn't matter if you think the judge in this case is a great gal. It doesn't matter what you feel.

What's the excuse for the judge not to follow the law?

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Well said. +1

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TexasNative wrote:

What's the excuse for the judge not to follow the law? What's the justification?

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In this particular case, it seems the judge has ruled the applicant hasn't met the requirements set forth in the law.

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TexasNative wrote:

It doesn't matter that it bothers you that someone might get a concealed carry permit without a hands-on class. It doesn't matter if you think the judge in this case is a great gal. It doesn't matter what you feel.

What's the excuse for the judge not to follow the law?

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++1

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Sheriff wrote:

In this particular case, it seems the judge has ruled the applicant hasn't met the requirements set forth in the law.

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That's exactly the problem, Sheriff. So far, she hasn't ruled anything. If she would rule, then the applicant could request an ore tenus hearing.

But, she's not following the law, as far as I can see. Where did you get your information that she made a ruling on this application? If you can point me to it, I'll happily withdraw this particular complaint.

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Sheriff wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

What's the excuse for the judge not to follow the law? What's the justification?

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In this particular case, it seems the judge has ruled the applicant hasn't met the requirements set forth in the law.

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As TexasNative pointed out, your facts (unless you have inside information) are not correct.

Two previous posts by the OP stated:

Sooooo... After several weeks of Debbie Shipp not returning calls, my buddy finally got in touch with her. It seems the Albemarle County judge is going to let his temporary permit expire ans then refuse to issue another. Basically she won't decline him, just not accept the course and hope he forgets about it.

Needless to say... He's furious. He'll be seeing the judge in court on the 12th.

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The clerk told him today that the judge would not be signing his application, he asked if it was simply because the class was taken online. The clerk told him the judge would not accept the course because "it did not include hands on training." Word for word, I was there.

The judge thinks CHP classes require hands on training.

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As I've posted previously, the law sure seems to me to give them two options at the end of the 90 days, either issue or decline. There is no "pocket veto" for CHP applications.

From what I have read here, it sounds to me like this judge knows she is in the wrong, and is trying to avoid following the rules.

TFred

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TexasNative wrote:

That's exactly the problem, Sheriff. So far, she hasn't ruled anything. If she would rule, then the applicant could request an ore tenus hearing.

But, she's not following the law, as far as I can see. Where did you get your information that she made a ruling on this application? If you can point me to it, I'll happily withdraw this particular complaint.

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Well,it may not be an official ruling at this point in time, agreed. But we were told by Leprechaun117 that the clerk has claimed the judge has pretty much set forth her opinion on this matter. It will become an official "ruling" once the judge etches it in stone.

Keep in mind though, this is all third or fourth person information to us right now. He said,she said, she said. None of us have actually heard the judge say one word.


leprechaun117 wrote:

The clerk told him today that the judge would not be signing his application, he asked if it was simply because the class was taken online. The clerk told him the judge would not accept the course because "it did not include hands on training." Word for word, I was there.

The judge thinks CHP classes require hands on training.

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TFred wrote:

From what I have read here, it sounds to me like this judge knows she is in the wrong, and is trying to avoid following the rules.

TFred

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If this is true, why is there only one person in Albemarle County having this problem? I don't know of any other applications being refused or denied. I have a gut feeling there's something more taking place in this case. Something we haven't been told.

I've been around the block a few times, it's called age and experience. And I can tell you I have seen a few CHP permits issued that never should have been. The only thing that saved the applicantwas the "shall issue" clause.

When this particular case is over and done with, I think we will all be able to look back and say, "Damn, you really can learn something new every day!"

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What's the update here? Has the defacto permit been issued? Does it expire soon?