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Open Carry court case: West Allis City Courthouse on Tuesday February 17th at 8 AM
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Nutczak
Regular Member
imported post
toromojo wrote:
I do not see why you wouldn't attend. if anything, it will give you a better understanding of how wrong the WAPD and the city attorney are by first arresting Brad, and then leveling charges against him.
Whats the worst that can happen? a co-worker might ask why you were there? and truthfully it is none of their business.
toromojo wrote:
I do not see why you wouldn't attend. if anything, it will give you a better understanding of how wrong the WAPD and the city attorney are by first arresting Brad, and then leveling charges against him.
Whats the worst that can happen? a co-worker might ask why you were there? and truthfully it is none of their business.
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you guys are right of course. I suppose if I keep my mouth shut at work I won't have anything to worry about. I guess my fear was that in supporting Brad, I could be projecting the image that the department supports one side or another, and all that garbage. Yes, through orientation we're told that we represent the city, etc. But then I realized that nobody cares what I think, so I'm hoping to attend.
you guys are right of course. I suppose if I keep my mouth shut at work I won't have anything to worry about. I guess my fear was that in supporting Brad, I could be projecting the image that the department supports one side or another, and all that garbage. Yes, through orientation we're told that we represent the city, etc. But then I realized that nobody cares what I think, so I'm hoping to attend.
Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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It would be highly inappropriate, possibly illegal, for the city as an employer to retaliate against someone for their political beliefs. I hope you attend without fear.
It would be highly inappropriate, possibly illegal, for the city as an employer to retaliate against someone for their political beliefs. I hope you attend without fear.
GlockMeisterG21
Campaign Veteran
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toromojo wrote:
I see no problem with it but I cannot speak for your supervisor. I would think that as long as you show up as a civilian, dressed as a civilian, and didn't make any statements or remarks other than your personal opinions there should be no issue. Your boss or job have no right to keep you from doing anything so long as it is legal.
But yes, showing up will likely make your opinion known to those you work with. However, if this is something that you feel strongly about it shouldn't matter who knows your opinion. Showing up to something like this is simply using your First Amendment rights to show your support for Brad and your disgust for the violation of his Second and Fourth Amendment rights.
Hope to see you there!
toromojo wrote:
I see no problem with it but I cannot speak for your supervisor. I would think that as long as you show up as a civilian, dressed as a civilian, and didn't make any statements or remarks other than your personal opinions there should be no issue. Your boss or job have no right to keep you from doing anything so long as it is legal.
But yes, showing up will likely make your opinion known to those you work with. However, if this is something that you feel strongly about it shouldn't matter who knows your opinion. Showing up to something like this is simply using your First Amendment rights to show your support for Brad and your disgust for the violation of his Second and Fourth Amendment rights.
Hope to see you there!
Teej
Regular Member
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Shotgun wrote:
Illegal, no. There is no protection for discrimination based on political beliefs.
Shotgun wrote:
Inappropriate yes.
Illegal, no. There is no protection for discrimination based on political beliefs.
Doug Huffman
Banned
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As in political patronage. As in my acquaintance that was interested in the wording of Terry Musser's question to the AG, retired by Doyle and a good ol' boy.
As in political patronage. As in my acquaintance that was interested in the wording of Terry Musser's question to the AG, retired by Doyle and a good ol' boy.
Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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Teej wrote:
Teej wrote:
Not true, at the very least it depends upon where you live. For example in Madison "political beliefs" is written into the ordinances as a protected class for job discrimination. Also state law regarding the "duties of public officials" could come arguably into play.
Teej
Regular Member
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OK, I'm perfectly willing to accept that I could be wrong on this (in fact, I believe I should be.) I took my info from this link...
http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/er/discrimination_civil_rights/fair_employment_law.htm
which states....
that it is unlawful for employers, employment agencies, labor unions and licensing agencies to discriminate against employees and job applicants because of any of the following:
Age, Ancestry, Arrest Record, Color, Conviction Record, Creed, Disability, Genetic Testing, Honesty Testing, Marital Status, Military Service, National Origin, Pregnancy or Childbirth, Race, Sex, Sexual orientation, Use or nonuse of lawful products off the employer's premises during nonworking hours. Employees may not be harassed in the workplace based on their protected status nor retaliated against for filing a complaint, for assisting with a complaint, or for opposing discrimination in the workplace.
OK, I'm perfectly willing to accept that I could be wrong on this (in fact, I believe I should be.) I took my info from this link...
http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/er/discrimination_civil_rights/fair_employment_law.htm
which states....
that it is unlawful for employers, employment agencies, labor unions and licensing agencies to discriminate against employees and job applicants because of any of the following:
Age, Ancestry, Arrest Record, Color, Conviction Record, Creed, Disability, Genetic Testing, Honesty Testing, Marital Status, Military Service, National Origin, Pregnancy or Childbirth, Race, Sex, Sexual orientation, Use or nonuse of lawful products off the employer's premises during nonworking hours. Employees may not be harassed in the workplace based on their protected status nor retaliated against for filing a complaint, for assisting with a complaint, or for opposing discrimination in the workplace.
polymer
New member
imported post
Hi all. Been following this thread for a month or so and have finally registered. I am impatiently waiting to see how this turns out so that I may approach my local P.D. with a precidence that should help them accept my intentions of open carry in town untill our state gets it together enough to pass concealed legislation. I'm located on the wetern border of the state, so attending the hearing is not do-able for me. I very much appreciate the efforts and representationof those of you who are able to attend. You are all great defenders of liberty and your presence should definitely have an impact! Thank You!!!
Hi all. Been following this thread for a month or so and have finally registered. I am impatiently waiting to see how this turns out so that I may approach my local P.D. with a precidence that should help them accept my intentions of open carry in town untill our state gets it together enough to pass concealed legislation. I'm located on the wetern border of the state, so attending the hearing is not do-able for me. I very much appreciate the efforts and representationof those of you who are able to attend. You are all great defenders of liberty and your presence should definitely have an impact! Thank You!!!
Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
imported post
polymer wrote:
I really hope Brad Krause wins, but there are a lot of people on this thread that really fail to understand the likely effect of his win at this hearing. My prediction is that this city court thing will be followed by a lawsuit. THAT is when you may get somethingthat helps you.
polymer wrote:
It is not precedent. It is a city court decision on a civil offense (this is not even a criminal offense). It is not even going to be binding upon the city in which it takes place.
I really hope Brad Krause wins, but there are a lot of people on this thread that really fail to understand the likely effect of his win at this hearing. My prediction is that this city court thing will be followed by a lawsuit. THAT is when you may get somethingthat helps you.
BJA
Campaign Veteran
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Malum your kind of right, but still if we had a very public case such as this where the defendant wins the police may take a hint, at least on your own property, if I open carried at my house and if brad won and I had the files pertaining to that case the officers that approach me will at least think twice, provided they have common sense and respect. Now as you said if this goes further or if there are reprocutions on the police departments behalf we may have more "wiggle" room, power, respect of rights,or however you want to say it, you are right. The fact that there isn't many organizations helping such as the NRA or Wisconsin organtions willing to help brad is troublesome but if it is moved to a higher court I hope we will get more help. Right now as far as I know it's just us at OCDO and the Wisconsin Patriots that are willing to help Brad and our cause. Also polymer welcome to the site!
Ben
edit: This case is pretty public it is reaching around the web and to other gun owners, yet we do not necessarily have the mainstream media sadly, but the support we have of the listeners nowI believe is enough to make a great difference.
Malum your kind of right, but still if we had a very public case such as this where the defendant wins the police may take a hint, at least on your own property, if I open carried at my house and if brad won and I had the files pertaining to that case the officers that approach me will at least think twice, provided they have common sense and respect. Now as you said if this goes further or if there are reprocutions on the police departments behalf we may have more "wiggle" room, power, respect of rights,or however you want to say it, you are right. The fact that there isn't many organizations helping such as the NRA or Wisconsin organtions willing to help brad is troublesome but if it is moved to a higher court I hope we will get more help. Right now as far as I know it's just us at OCDO and the Wisconsin Patriots that are willing to help Brad and our cause. Also polymer welcome to the site!
Ben
edit: This case is pretty public it is reaching around the web and to other gun owners, yet we do not necessarily have the mainstream media sadly, but the support we have of the listeners nowI believe is enough to make a great difference.
Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
BJA wrote:
BJA wrote:
Please do not argue with cops during a non-consensual detainment.
Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
imported post
BJA wrote:
Ben, Just one group is enough, trust me! I hope you are right about officers thinking twice, but since I was a police officer for 12 years, I know something of the mindset, and, typically, a loss in court even on a criminal charge is "no big deal." A loss on a civil offense does not even register on the radar screen. The usual comment is to "let the court sort it out."
I truly do hope he wins his case, and I think it is great that so many people are showing up to support him.
I just do not want people to misunderstand the likely effect of a win. It is likely to have no real effect on the next guy in this town or any other town who decides to obey the law and carry openly.
My guess is that Brad Krause will follow up with a lawsuit.
BJA wrote:
Ben, Just one group is enough, trust me! I hope you are right about officers thinking twice, but since I was a police officer for 12 years, I know something of the mindset, and, typically, a loss in court even on a criminal charge is "no big deal." A loss on a civil offense does not even register on the radar screen. The usual comment is to "let the court sort it out."
I truly do hope he wins his case, and I think it is great that so many people are showing up to support him.
I just do not want people to misunderstand the likely effect of a win. It is likely to have no real effect on the next guy in this town or any other town who decides to obey the law and carry openly.
My guess is that Brad Krause will follow up with a lawsuit.
Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
imported post
Pointman, please do not take this the wrong way, because I know you mean well and that you are sincere and not trying to mislead anybody here. I am not attacking you personally, but I do not want people mislead even if it is unintentional.
A municipal court decision on a city civil offense will have just about zero effect (except on Mr. Krause's checkbook, since it will determine whether he pays a small fine).
If there is only one judge in this town, then it might conceivably have an effect on police officers in this one town not wanting to waste their time with making the exact same civil offense charge, but I doubt it will change their initial response to a "man with a gun" call. In other words, they will still threaten to kill you, disarm you, and run your i.d. while you are handcuffed and on the ground. Then they will make another charge or let you go with a stern warning.
I am assumingthat the goal here in Wisconsinis to stop the police in Wisconsin from illegally detaining you when you are not suspected of breaking the law, not to get out of paying a small fine after the police detain you.
Remember, the city judge in this civil offense case is not deciding whether the officer's response to the 911 call was appropriate. His role is limited to deciding whether Brad Krause should get a small fine for the civil offense listed on the ticket, or not. That is all the judge is doing.
I am not a member of the Wisconsin bar (although I am a member of the bar, just not in Wisconsin), but I have consulted a Wisconsin attorney about this very issue. These are my thoughts and his.
I hope everybody reading this post takes it in the spirit in which it is intended. I support you going to the courthouse (although the suggestions for behavior while there are a little screwy), and, if I were in Wisconsin, I would show up, too.
Pointman, please do not take this the wrong way, because I know you mean well and that you are sincere and not trying to mislead anybody here. I am not attacking you personally, but I do not want people mislead even if it is unintentional.
A municipal court decision on a city civil offense will have just about zero effect (except on Mr. Krause's checkbook, since it will determine whether he pays a small fine).
If there is only one judge in this town, then it might conceivably have an effect on police officers in this one town not wanting to waste their time with making the exact same civil offense charge, but I doubt it will change their initial response to a "man with a gun" call. In other words, they will still threaten to kill you, disarm you, and run your i.d. while you are handcuffed and on the ground. Then they will make another charge or let you go with a stern warning.
I am assumingthat the goal here in Wisconsinis to stop the police in Wisconsin from illegally detaining you when you are not suspected of breaking the law, not to get out of paying a small fine after the police detain you.
Remember, the city judge in this civil offense case is not deciding whether the officer's response to the 911 call was appropriate. His role is limited to deciding whether Brad Krause should get a small fine for the civil offense listed on the ticket, or not. That is all the judge is doing.
I am not a member of the Wisconsin bar (although I am a member of the bar, just not in Wisconsin), but I have consulted a Wisconsin attorney about this very issue. These are my thoughts and his.
I hope everybody reading this post takes it in the spirit in which it is intended. I support you going to the courthouse (although the suggestions for behavior while there are a little screwy), and, if I were in Wisconsin, I would show up, too.
Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
imported post
Pointman wrote:
Pointman wrote:
How much?
Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
imported post
Pointman wrote:
Pointman wrote:
I know you don't. I think by now we've hashed it out!