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Thread: is concealed carry at christmas party okay

  1. #1
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    i am going ot a christmas party for my wife"s employer tonight. the party i being held in a ball room of a virginia beach hotel. there will be a bar set up in the room for the guests. this party is only for invited employees, family and guests and not open to the public. i know that i could carry open but do not want to do that for a number of reasons. i'v read the regulations several times and am confused myself as the the legality of concealed carry in this situation. somebody have any better feel or reading of the regulations than i. dont want to attend a party in virgina beach at night naked . :X

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Does the facility have a permit to serve alcoholic beverages on premises?

    If so I would be wary wary careful about CC and because it is your wifes employer I would think OC would be very unpopular.

    Just my $.02
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I fully understand you concerns with this as I have had the same concerns at a family wedding and reception held in Alexandria, VA. I suppose you have to wrestle with your own conscience in these matters. I did and while I am not about to admit whether or not I CC'd a little friend, let's just say I was more of a mind to consider my wife's and my security above any laws.

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    Everytime you can't legally carry, don't. Then just make a mental note to send more money to VCDL so they can get it fixed

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    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    Is it a restaurant or club? If not, then you can carry concealed.

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    "Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.

    "Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.
    Sounds to me like a hotel could easily be a 'restaurant'.

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    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    Is it a restaurant or club? If not, then you can carry concealed.
    If they are licensed as a restaurant, then they are a restaurant. That's the distinction.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So what did you decide to do?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

    Police allege sacked employee killed his former boss
    Updated Sat. Dec. 13 2008 10:38 PM ET
    CTV.ca News Staff
    A man has been charged with first-degree murder after a shooting at an office Christmas party in Vancouver Friday.
    Police allege Eric Allen Kirkpatrick, 61, opened fire at the TallGrass Distribution Ltd Christmas party, killing Benjamin David Banky, 40.
    Banky was the CEO of TallGrass Distribution Ltd., a natural health products company.
    At least a dozen employees had been celebrating when the gunman, who had been recently laid off, entered the party and began firing a gun, according to Vancouver Police spokesperson Const. Tim Fanning.
    The other partygoers managed to escape unharmed.
    "The shock was tremendous but all the other people in the business - and there another dozen other people who were there for a Christmas party - managed to get out safely," Fanning said.
    Police locked down the neighbourhood before the suspect turned himself in around 6 p.m.
    Police said Kirkpatrick was let go on Dec. 11.
    A resident who lives in a nearby apartment building told The Canadian Press that he did not hear gunshots, but saw a woman run from the party and into a nearby auto repair shop, where it appears she called for help.
    "All of a sudden in my front yard there were five totally decked out, geared up riot squad officers with guns out of the holster, aiming at the second floor of the building right beside us," Luke Pigeon said. "I tried to open up my door and they said close your door, lock your door."
    Mark Pinder told The Canadian Press that police ordered a group of film studio employees into the basement of their building, which was across the street from the party.
    The group was just about to celebrate the completion of a project when police came knocking, he said.
    "People grabbed a couple of bowls of chips and dip and we just sort of moved the party downstairs," Pinder said.
    "Some people seemed quite concerned but there wasn't anyone freaking out or crying. Everyone was calling their family and making sure that people knew they were OK."
    Pigeon said police spent about two hours negotiating with the suspect before bringing him into custody.
    "They cuffed him on the ground and they took him into a cruiser," he said.
    "He was giving them a bit of grief, he was saying that his cuffs hurt, but he was following orders."
    Employees who had been at the party at the time of the shooting are receiving counselling from the Vancouver police victim's services team.
    "I can't emphasize enough how traumatic this would have been for the people in there to see one of their co-workers gunned down, so we're going to do all we can to help these people though a very, very difficult time," Fanning said.
    With files from The Canadian Press



  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

    Police allege sacked employee killed his former boss
    SNIP...
    Ahh, Doug? Is this supposed to be funny? If so I think you might want to reconsider leaving posted.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I actually did sort of laugh, but I think Doug's point was merely that violence can occur even at Christmas parties, thus best to be armed; not that what the OP decided to do was commit first-degree murder.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    I actually did sort of laugh, but I think Doug's point was merely that violence can occur even at Christmas parties, thus best to be armed; not that what the OP decided to do was commit first-degree murder.
    I got the joke, but frankly it is kind of an insult to the OP.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    marshaul wrote:
    I actually did sort of laugh, but I think Doug's point was merely that violence can occur even at Christmas parties, thus best to be armed; not that what the OP decided to do was commit first-degree murder.
    +1

    Offense is in the eye of the beholder and Not utter'd by base sale of chapmen's tongue.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    I actually did sort of laugh, but I think Doug's point was merely that violence can occur even at Christmas parties, thus best to be armed; not that what the OP decided to do was commit first-degree murder.
    I got the joke, but frankly it is kind of an insult to the OP.
    Perhaps, but once again I think the joke was unintended. Doug seems to agree, and he should know.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Yea, well I guess I am just not bright enough to see how this article posted with no explanation of its relevance to the OP or even with a proper contextual basis helps move OC forward. I suppose that readers who come along next month or next year will just have to figure it out for them selves, or have one of you explain it for them.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I'd say you're not bright enough to see what's right in front of your nose! :P

    How is it not obvious? We have a thread debating going armed to a christmas party. Doug subsequently posts about a shooting at a christmas party. The moral? The OP had good reason to be armed to the party because shootings can happen even at christmas parties.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Yea, well I guess I am just not bright enough to see how this article posted with no explanation of its relevance to the OP or even with a proper contextual basis helps move OC forward. I suppose that readers who come along next month or next year will just have to figure it out for them selves. Regards
    I am disappointed.

    The OP asks "Is concealed carry at a Christmas party OK?" and I provided a documented example of why it should be OK, reasonable and accepted - OC or CC.

    Perhaps I assume too much of this movement as represented here.

    Merry Christmas

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Yea, well I guess I am just not bright enough to see how this article posted with no explanation of its relevance to the OP or even with a proper contextual basis helps move OC forward. I suppose that readers who come along next month or next year will just have to figure it out for them selves. Regards
    I am disappointed.

    The OP asks "Is concealed carry at a Christmas party OK?" and I provided a documented example of why it should be OK, reasonable and accepted - OC or CC.

    Perhaps I assume too much of this movement as represented here.

    Merry Christmas
    Ok lets see.

    The OP is in Virginia, your story is from Canada, but that is not apparent right off as the eye is drawn to the RED TEXT and there is a Vancover in Washington. The company is where the OP's wife works, so he is a second tier invitee. Generally this does not bode well for being welcomed while carrying. The post immediately prior to yours asked the OP what he had decided to do. The very next thing we read is your post offered with no comment from you until I responded. I would point out that I was not the only person who initially thought this had to be some kind of joke.

    marshaul wrote:
    I actually did sort of laugh, SNIP...
    If you will recall, in one of the Danbus incidents, others posted on his behalf at one point because HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED AGAIN. So you will have to excuse me for taking the post in the only context I had. As the follow up to the question immediately ahead of it in the thread.

    Obviously I got past thinking the OP shot someone, to conclude that there must be some humorous intent. But as I said I was apparently not bright enough to jump the chasm you provided between a shooting in Canada and the need to be armed at a party in Virginia the way Marshaul was. SoEXCUUUSSE MEE!


    Merry Christmas to you as well

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    cwolfs69 wrote:
    i am going ot a christmas party for my wife"s employer tonight. the party i being held in a ball room of a virginia beach hotel. there will be a bar set up in the room for the guests. this party is only for invited employees, family and guests and not open to the public. i know that i could carry open but do not want to do that for a number of reasons. i'v read the regulations several times and am confused myself as the the legality of concealed carry in this situation. somebody have any better feel or reading of the regulations than i. dont want to attend a party in virgina beach at night naked . :X
    I don't blame you for wanting to go armed, just like a lot of places in Va, the beach has some "seedy" areas to say the least. I agree with Hawk, if they serve alcohol you could be in a bit of a jam in regards to the law. My guess is the hotel has an ABC permit, so you would be put in that position. I would suggest just OC. Screw it, it's better than getting robbed outside the hotel. Or what about having an exposed ankle holster with a small 38 type weapon? Just a thought, people rarely look down at your feet anyway.

  20. #20
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Why not start by doing a search on the ABC page and determining just what kind of license the location has?

    http://www.abc.virginia.gov/licensee...=retaillicense



  21. #21
    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Why not start by doing a search on the ABC page and determining just what kind of license the location has?

    http://www.abc.virginia.gov/licensee...=retaillicense
    Great idea, but the party was last night - it looks to me like cwolfs69 asked this question because he had little time to research it and hoped someone on here might be able to give him a quick answer. Sometimes BEING safe is hard to do....without bending some rules....as we all know, the Second Amendment does not list any exceptions as to where we can bear arms....

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