Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Restricted from Permit

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    I have read the rules for obtaining a Concealed weapons permit here in Utah. Considering I have both a DUI and poss. of marijuana on my record (even though I no longer use alcohol or marijuana), I cannot get one. The questions I have are:

    What is the time frame of getting a permit down the road?

    Also, can I carry a concealed weapon as long as I don't have a round in the chamber?

  2. #2
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    You can carry OPENLY without a round in the chamber, but you still cannot conceal. It dosen't evenmatter if you don't have ammo on youat all, concealment of a firearm is still a crime.

    76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2) and (3):
    (a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor; and
    (b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (3) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (4) Nothing in Subsection (1) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
    (a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
    (b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #3
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    Zargo5307 wrote:
    Considering I have both a DUI and poss. of marijuana on my record (even though I no longer use alcohol or marijuana), I cannot get one
    53-5-704. Division duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
    (1) (a) The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless during the 60-day period the division finds proof that the applicant is not of good character.
    (b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
    (2) (a) An applicant satisfactorily demonstrates good character if the applicant:
    (i) has not been convicted of a felony;
    (ii) has not been convicted of a crime of violence;
    (iii) has not been convicted of an offense involving the use of alcohol;
    (iv) has not been convicted of an offense involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances;
    (v) has not been convicted of an offense involving moral turpitude;
    (vi) has not been convicted of an offense involving domestic violence;
    (vii) has not been adjudicated by a state or federal court as mentally incompetent, unless the adjudication has been withdrawn or reversed; and
    (viii) is qualified to purchase and possess a firearm pursuant to Section 76-10-503 and federal law.


    The law states that your DUI will prohibit you from getting a permit, but I am not sure about the weed. You said that you were charged with unlawful possession, but the law prohibits unlawful use.

    So I have two questions...

    1. Were any of these charges against you felonies?

    2. Was the judgement on the DUI a Plea in Abayence?

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the info and the answer is no to both of your questions.

  5. #5
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    You're welcome! Feel free to ask questions anytime!

    Remember, you may not be able to conceal, but you can still open carry.

    Nice Rod. welcome to OCDO! :celebrate
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #6
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795

    Post imported post

    Zargo5307 wrote:
    I have read the rules for obtaining a Concealed weapons permit here in Utah. Considering I have both a DUI and poss. of marijuana on my record (even though I no longer use alcohol or marijuana), I cannot get one. The questions I have are:

    What is the time frame of getting a permit down the road?

    Also, can I carry a concealed weapon as long as I don't have a round in the chamber?
    You cannot legally carry a concealed weapon in Utah without a permit.

    If you have ever been convicted of a felony (or domestic violence misdemeanor, or found mentally incompetent) you cannot legally even possess a gun, much less carry one.

    USERS of illegal drugs are also prohibited from possessing or carrying guns under federal law, if I'm not mistaken.

    I note the recent news about the fellow who is serving a mandatory 55 years in federal prison (no parole possible) for simply having a gun on his person while making some small sales of pot. No kidding, do NOT have illegal drugs ANYWHERE close to you or your property while carrying a gun; do NOT hang out with or meet for a drink or give a ride to old friends who may be carrying drugs while you are carrying a gun.

    In fact, don't let anyone at all likely to use, sell, or otherwise be involved with drugs anywhere near your ride, your home, business, or other property if you own, much less carry guns. And that includes family.

    That all said, your best bet is to simply call the BCI and ask them how long after misdemeanor (or lower) DUI or possession of marijuana they will consider issuing a permit to carry concealed. Their phone number is right at the top of <http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/>.

    If I were a betting man, I'd guess that you're looking at AT LEAST 5 years, and maybe as many as 10 years before they are going to issue a permit.

    Finally, if you are going to OC without a permit, make sure you are VERY familiar with the off limit locations (including 1000' from EVERY school--K-12 PLUS higher ed, trade school, etc--in the State). Taking a permit class, even if you can't get a permit, is a very good idea.

    Finally, if you've really cleaned up your life, congrats. But carefully consider the perception if you do commit some minor violation of law while carrying and your background comes out including the fact that you can't yet get a permit.

    If you haven't, please don't mess around with carrying a gun and giving the truly law abiding a black eye.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  7. #7
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    How long ago were each of the offenses?

    The Utah law allows DPS discretion to find good moral character & issue a permit as long as you are not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm Utah Code ยง 53-5-704(2) merely specifies a set of conditions under which the DPS is without discretion to find a lack of good moral character.

    If your offenses are more than 5 years old, you have a good chance of getting approved as long as you include with your application a decent explanation of what you did & how you no longer use illegal drugs or abuse alcohol.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    Wow Bagpiper, calm down buddy. I was just asking some questions. I HAVE cleaned up, I wasn't on crack rocks or slamming heroin in my veins. I have 2 kids and work 2 jobs.I am a law abiding citizen other than a few mistakes I have made while under the influence. I got all the crazy times out of my system in my 20's and am ready to move on to my 30's soon. Considering I haven't used ANYTHING in over a year, I believe I won't even put myself in a situation to make a mistake with something as serious as a firearm. Just wanted to clear that up

  9. #9
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795

    Post imported post

    Zargo5307 wrote:
    Wow Bagpiper, calm down buddy. I was just asking some questions. I HAVE cleaned up, I wasn't on crack rocks or slamming heroin in my veins. I have 2 kids and work 2 jobs.I am a law abiding citizen other than a few mistakes I have made while under the influence. I got all the crazy times out of my system in my 20's and am ready to move on to my 30's soon. Considering I haven't used ANYTHING in over a year, I believe I won't even put myself in a situation to make a mistake with something as serious as a firearm. Just wanted to clear that up
    Sometimes it is hard to feel intent when reading these posts. This seems to be one of those times as you seem to think I've got far more emotion in this than I do. I assure you that what was typed was typed in the most calm fashion possible.

    I was simply answering your questions, and offering some advice and insights into the severity of potential consequences for what many might consider "minor technical" violations. There are situations that can cause the legal gun owner a heap of trouble that many folks have not considered. I'd prefer you consider them before they arise and you are facing legal consequences. Make your choices as you will, but if you ask questions, I will try to help you be informed. The point of my post is that some things involving a firearm can carry very serious consequences even though the act itself might seem very minor. Such as the case of giving an old friend a ride home and it just turns out that the old friend is using and carrying drugs or even drops (plants) a few in your car and turns you in as a major dealer to get his own bust reduced. Paranoid? Maybe. But it happens. And if you happen to have a gun on you when the narcs find a reason to search your car, you can be looking at a lifetime sentence.

    Finally, the fact that you still think "over a year" is a long time in terms of being clean suggests you've got a ways to go down that road to have full clear perspective.

    Again, my best congratulations on getting clean. My best wishes for staying that way. But there are reasons that BCI is likely to require a 5 to 10 period after conviction for these types of offenses before issuing a permit and why the vast majority of permit holders are ok with that kind of wait.

    You may very well be the exception who gets clean and stays clean the first time, never has material associations with old buddies who use or deal, or otherwise have issues with your past. But for a lot of those who have used to the extent to have DUIs and possession convictions it will take more than a year to really break all ties and old patterns of behavior and none of us want to see someone giving permit holders or even law abiding gun owners/carriers in general a bad rap.

    And I won't blow sunshine up your skirt about the PR problem you will have with a cop, prosecutor, judge, or jury should you make even the smallest technical mistake, or even no mistake at all but a cop responds to a man with a gun call and chooses to pull your record. I think such things are worth considering before making potentially life altering decisions.

    Best of luck


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,221

    Post imported post

    i contacted BCI:

    To qualify for a Utah CFP
    5 years from last known conviction CLOSE date. (all fines paid, etc.)
    6 years from any DUI, close date (fines paid, etc) ( extra year for a DUI i guess)

    BCI reuests that you send in a letter explaining the crimes and (in so many words) asks to explain why they should trust you with a CFP.

    Good Luck.

    FYI: those guys down at BCI were really cool. They took time to answer my questions and I really didn't feel as though i was being rushed off the phone. i will continue to communicate with BCI via an E-Mail address, to an agent (Agent?) there, that was given to me.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    I should be amazed at how many time these types of questions come up but I am not considering some of the studies out there. I think Utah has the right idea abouta time limit on allowing a person to redeem themselves. How many times do we read about someone on here getting charged for something stupid while young but realizing it later on and changing. I absolutely believe the woman that put out the study that sad until the age of 25 our brains are not capable of making good decisions. We talk about how 18 year olds or younger should be provided the same rights to carry as people older but time and again we read posts like the OP's.

    Sometimes I think there should be two sets of laws, one for under 30 and one for over 30. Once you reach 30 then much of what you did before then should be erased if you have behaved yourself for 5 years. I realize that this doesn't apply in every case but it sure seems to in the vast majority. Car rental companies and insurance companies agreethat the magic age is 25. As I get older I realize this more and when I think back to when I was young I wonder how in the world I made it this far. :what:

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795

    Post imported post

    PT111 wrote:
    ...I absolutely believe the woman that put out the study that sad until the age of 25 our brains are not capable of making good decisions. We talk about how 18 year olds or younger should be provided the same rights to carry as people older but time and again we read posts like the OP's.

    Sometimes I think there should be two sets of laws, one for under 30 and one for over 30. Once you reach 30 then much of what you did before then should be erased if you have behaved yourself for 5 years. I realize that this doesn't apply in every case but it sure seems to in the vast majority. Car rental companies and insurance companies agreethat the magic age is 25. As I get older I realize this more and when I think back to when I was young I wonder how in the world I made it this far. :what:
    Amen. Such comments and what I viewed as "arbitrary" age limits drove me crazy back when I was a mature-for-my-age youth.

    I'm realizing more and more that the wise men who framed our Constitution were not being arbitrary when they set age limits for the House of Reps, Senate, and President at 25, 30, and 35 respectively rather than something lower.

    There are exceptions, of course. But they are exceptions. And even the best of us can generally look back at some follies of youth and be glad for the chance to change.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Commonwealth of Virginia
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    Zargo- One option you may want to consider is obtaining a non-resident permit from a state that does not bar on the record you have. Florida is one, and has reciprocity with Utah.
    Might work, might not.

  14. #14
    seetumail
    Guest

    Post imported post

    The discussion that's going around is great.I got aware with lot of things that were unknown to me.Thanks so much for the useful info
    Eliza
    dui


  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Firestone, Colorado
    Posts
    1,189

    Post imported post

    starbuck wrote:
    Zargo- One option you may want to consider is obtaining a non-resident permit from a state that does not bar on the record you have. Florida is one, and has reciprocity with Utah.
    Utah honors all other states' permits, so if there is a state that will give you a permit, Zargo, then you can carry legally in Utah. I know a few people who are under 21 who have gotten permits from Maine, for example.

    That said, I suggest you make completely sure that you're ready. You recognize that you have made some poor decisions in the past and have made the effort to correct them. Carrying a deadly weapon is a huge risk and a huge responsibility. Make sure you're ready for it, both in terms of your own actions and in terms of the people who you allow to be around you.

    And if you're seriously considering carrying even though you may legally be barred from owning a firearm, you haven't taken the responsibility seriously enough.

    I recommend that you discuss this matter with an attorney. Get competent legal advice as to what your legal constraints are and what your options are.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •