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Thread: A strange, scary confrontation

  1. #1
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    A few weeks ago I was walking along 12th Ave S. near my home in Seattle, on Beacon Hill. I was open carrying like I always do.

    Behind me I suddenly hear "Let me see your badge!". A man in his late 30s was pulled up next to me on the side of the road in a red sports-like-car. "Do you have a badge?" he kept yelling. My first instinct was to ignore him and continue walking, but it was clear he intended to engage me.

    I go into state Orange and become cautious, and frankly scared since I've never been confronted like this.

    "I can see that you have a concealed weapon, and you're going to go to jail unless I see your badge". His declarative tone made me doubly scared, first of what he might do if things get out of control, and also of what could happen if he's a misinformed off-duty officer, or other type of LEO. His manner suggests military / police.

    I turn to him and look at him for a second, wondering what to say. As confused as he is, I don't intend to get into an argument with him. Finally I settle with, "Can you identify yourself?". He shoots back "I am just a civilian".

    I ponder for a second more, unsure what to do, trying to stay cool, wondering what I will do if he gets out of his car. Next I say "I need to be on my way", following the advice I've read on many columns. I keep on walking.

    I'm only a few blocks from home and the safety of my gated apartment complex. The guy decides to follow me. He's angry, on the phone. Calling the police. The car creeps along the road behind me.

    He continues to follow me. Construction has blocked off the sidewalk, forcing me to enter the street. I'm just a couple yards ahead of his car -- he's trailing me, moving at my pace. Somehow I gain confidence here; I don't get the impression he will attack me. I haven't looked at him since I began walking away, and I don't look back at him when I step into the street to bypass the construction. Potential encounters flash through my mind: what should I do if he gets out of his car?

    Luckily for me, he doesn't. Perhaps he had just gripped the irony of breaking the law by using a cell phone while driving to report another crime, or perhaps for another reason. Perhaps the 911 operator told him he's an idiot.

    He stopped a block ago, and I'm ahead of him, crossing the street, making for the security gate. By now I hear sirens, but there are often sirens in my part of town. Probably firetrucks. I head deep into my apartment complex, hoping to get out of site and dodge a possible encounter with police should they come (Perhaps he lied to the dispatcher? Maybe he told them I'm threatening him?).

    The police don't come. I exit out back onto the road, but the man is gone.

    Phew.

    This was my first serious encounter since I've started OCing a couple of months ago. I thought I would write it up since I've been reading the forum today, thinking about and preparing for tonight's forum on the (unlawful) Seattle city gun ban.

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    I have had a couple of semi-scary encounters before this one. A couple of times police vehicles (no siren or lights) have come shooting up next to me on the street, only to pause for a few moments then drive away.

    The last time this happened I was with my fiancee and we were walking my cat, hopefully making it obvious that I am not providing cause for alarm. I am wary to think of what might've happened if I were alone at night, not walking a pet.


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    Some unstable nutjob. Probably from Kalifornia or some other uncivilized place. Glad it ended well.

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    Good thing you were close to home. If he had been following you for awhile, I would have called 911, especially if he was calling too. He could be making up a story that he threatened you, etc. Anyhow glad you made it back safe.

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    The doctrine arrived at by the forum over time seems to be to call the police. Get thetag/plate number, make, model, etc. And call the police. Be ready with a description of the driver.

    I'm not sure if that encounter fits a stalking statute exactly, but being followed home by a verbally belligerent person seems to fit the intimidation aspect of stalking.

    Betterto be the first person to call. The maxim is that the first caller is the one who is perceived as the victim.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Not sure that I would have done any differently than you did. Think you handled it well. There's no real reason to call the police, there's no crime committed here. I would have asked him why he thought I had to have a badge, maybe.....perhaps it would have defused the situation. Maybe I wouldn't have thought of it. Who knows? Either way, you made it home, the nutjob took off probably wondering why the National Guard wasn't called in because of the scary man with a gun, so no harm done. Maybe he'll even look it up.

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    xiphoris wrote:
    we were walking my cat,
    WTF?

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    you walk your cat? Crazy story

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    I used to walk my mom's two cats all the time (just not at once) Except they tended to go where they wanted.... but with some effort you can control the general area they go. Funny thing walking a cat... Never a dull moment.

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    heresolong wrote:
    xiphoris wrote:
    we were walking my cat,
    WTF?
    I wonder if there is a neighbor dog named (wait for it) Sam who talked to the driver and told him to "get that cat-walker."

    Maybe the cat was aware of the plot. Did the cat tell you start OCing? Especially whentaking the cat for a walk?





    Seriously, though. Scary story, Xiphoris. Glad it turned out OK.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    You walk you cat? That's awesome! I wish I could do that. PM me if you get a chance I'd like to know about training, etc.

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    xiphoris wrote:
    He shoots back "I am just a civilian".
    So than I responded "What do ya know, so am I! And I am practicing my protected rights. On the other hand, you are committing harassment, and if you don't knock it off and leave me alone, I will be calling the police myself and informing them somecreep is following me down the street, obstructing traffic, and causing a scene byyelling things at me."

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    The moment he said he was just a civilian, I would have phoned the police with a description of him, his vehicle, and his license plate number and said he was STALKING ME.



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    I likely would have responded with something along the lines of my standard "Unless you are a LEO I have no obligation to identify myself to or provide anything to you. If you would like to have a calm rationale discussion regarding something bothering you I would love to speak with you."

    Then when/if that didn't work I'd be with the "Call the police" crowd. The moment I thought he was doing that I would have wanted my story on tape as well.

    -adamsesq

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    I think you handled it well except in one regard (possibly) and that is leading him to your home, or at least your apt complex. If he was a nutcase he now knows approximately where you live. Would I have done something different? I would have if it were reasonable but not knowing the area and not being in the situation, maybe that was the best alternative. Glad you are safe.

    On a related note, this incident is a good example to show the antis or even the anti OCer crowd. Here is a man OCing, confronted by an apparently unarmed, verbally agressive citizen, and the OCer's first thought and eventual approach is to get away. He didn't excalate the situation. No place is it indicated that he even considered trying to confront the man and it is clear from the post that xiphoris never once considered drawing down on or otherwise using his sidearm to end the confrontation, defuse it or just scare away the guy. The one who was afraid was the guy with the gun. The one who walked away was the guy with the gun. The violent, offensive one was the (apparently) unarmed man.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The man in the car was obviously a hero. How else can you explain his selfless resolve in approaching an obvious terrorist. His lack of fear when threatened by a deviant with a gun while unwise, allowed him to possibly prevent a local massacre. It's apparent that his actions scared the criminal away saving untold lives.

    All who choose to carry guns in defiance of the safety and happiness of their neighbor should heed this as a warning. We are out there, and we will get you, and your little dog too.

    *Sarcasm mode deactivated*

    This would have been the perfect opportunity for an open carry bumper sticker (Snow Crash style)!

  17. #17
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    xiphoris wrote:
    Phew.
    Phew is right. That’s just plain weird. Great job on your part.



    Did helook like Mayor Nickels? The Mayormay have been out prowling to provokenegative responses to use at tonight’s hearings, which should be starting about Now!


    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    It wasn't clear in your OP, and I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere, but were you concealing at the time? I ask because you say he said "I can see that you have a concealed weapon", and I'm wondering if you were concealing poorly or if he didn't know that if your gun is visible you are not concealing. It doesn't really matter I suppose, but I'm just curious.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    FogRider wrote:
    It wasn't clear in your OP, and I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere, but were you concealing at the time? I ask because you say he said "I can see that you have a concealed weapon", and I'm wondering if you were concealing poorly or if he didn't know that if your gun is visible you are not concealing. It doesn't really matter I suppose, but I'm just curious.
    Good question. The first paragraph of the OP reads, "I was open carrying like I always do." and being that it is posted on OCDO I ASSUMED that the "concealed weapon" was a mistake either by the OP typing or the crazy man in the car, but I shouldn't have assumed and should have asked for clarification as did FogRider.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The first paragraph of the OP reads, "I was open carrying like I always do." and being that it is posted on OCDO I ASSUMED that the "concealed weapon" was a mistake either by the OP typing or the crazy man in the car, but I shouldn't have assumed and should have asked for clarification as did FogRider.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I meant to mention it in my post but forgot.

    The guy was completely wrong about my weapon being "concealed" -- I was wearing it openly. Just another part of his confusion regarding the issue.

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    Ok, so he was just that much more of a goofball. I figured so, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

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    FogRider wrote:
    Ok, so he was just that much more of a goofball. I figured so, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
    The only dumb question is the un-asked question.

    I wondered the same thing, but didn't ask.

    I'm glad you did.

  23. #23
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    I Oc on the 174 bus quite often and had a guy do something similar .This guy was demanding to see my license.I simply told him my firearm was properly holstered and in plain site so I absolutley did not have to show him anything.He went up and said something to the driver one of the drivers that see me all the time.I don't know what the driver said but this fellow sat back down in a huff towards the front and nothing more was said.

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    Now mind you, you do need a CPL to carry on the bus, regardless of OC or CC, but a passenger certainly has no business demanding to see it. Given the vague wording of the show on demand to persons required by law requirement, I wouldn't object to showing to to a driver if push came to shove so they know I'm legal to board their bus, but it has never come to that (the Bothell incident was over a long arm).

  25. #25
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I do always have my CPL with me.If a driver wanted to check out of courtesy i would probably show him.But ordinary joe noisy, none of his business.I have never been asked by a driver at any rate.

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