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Thread: OC'd at Joe's in Eugene today

  1. #1
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    I was OCing in Joe's today with my daughter, and was back in the firearms area looking at pocketknives & shotgun slings when one of the clerks came up to me:

    "Excuse me sir, can you please remove the magazine from your firearm while in the store?"

    That kindof took me by suprise, so I responded that this was my personal protection firearm, and that I would rather not.

    He said they had just been robbed recently at gunpoint and some of the clerks were very nervous about guns, and if I could please just remove my magazine (not unload it, just remove the magazine)...

    I should have asked if I could speak with a manager at that point, but I figured I would just go ahead and comply for the moment since I was almost finished, and I still had one in the chamber anyway (but I didn't tell him that). I just figured I wouldask for the manager at the front of the store on my way out.

    So I got up to the front counter, and asked for the store manager. He came up, (I think his name was Dave?) and I told him what I had been asked to do by one of the clerks. He told me he had just been told that by the clerk, and hoped I hadn't been offended. He verified that not only had Joe's been robbed at gunpoint very recently, but that 4 other stores in the area had been robbed recently too. I told him I knew robberies were up, and that was exactly why I was carrying openly, because nobody's going to attack an armed man.

    Just then a guy standing nearby piped upwith "You can't take his bullets! That's against the law! He has a right to self-defense!" I told the other guy "justa moment" and then finished talking with the Joe's manager.

    The managerhas a CHL himself, he said, but they won't let employees carry. He wasn't sure of the exact policy regarding carrying, but that he was going to look it up just to make sure of what it was. He didn't think that removing the magazine was in the policy, but he does ask people handling their guns (checking holsters, etc) unload them.

    I thanked the manager for discussing it with me, and turned around but the other guy was gone. I would've liked to have thanked him for trying to stand up for me, even though he may have been a little misguided.I would've liked to have chatted with him a bit.

    Neat to have an OC experience that turned out to be pretty positive. I would've gone more places, but needed to try and get home so the wife could go out shopping.

    Tomorrow I'm off all day because of the Winter weather, so I think I'll do some more OCing... Maybe into Gateway and Valley River Center malls

    ...Orygunner...





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    I too had OCed at Joe's before the meet we all had.. since I was at the beginning of my new OC lifestyle I didn't want to push things too far. I was looking at holsters and they also had a sale on those new I-bolts I wanted to see up close.. anyhoo..

    They escorted me to the firearms desk and the clerk was great, even owned one of my .45s little brothers.. so was a good talk.. but they required an escort to front checkout as well.. this was before the rash of robberies locally..

    J

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    Tomorrow I'm off all day because of the Winter weather, so I think I'll do some more OCing... Maybe into Gateway and Valley River Center malls

    ...Orygunner...
    Just read that part.. dang, I think I'm stuck working on pipes here at the house.. we had some freezing issues.. or I would meet you at the mall.. we need to get some small groups out for coffee and such..

    J

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    JBURGII wrote:
    I too had OCed at Joe's before the meet we all had.. since I was at the beginning of my new OC lifestyle I didn't want to push things too far. I was looking at holsters and they also had a sale on those new I-bolts I wanted to see up close.. anyhoo..

    They escorted me to the firearms desk and the clerk was great, even owned one of my .45s little brothers.. so was a good talk.. but they required an escort to front checkout as well.. this was before the rash of robberies locally..

    J
    I've been in a few places that wanted to "escort" me. I usually tell them I'd love to have the company and then spend as much time as I can just browsing all the way around the store looking at everything, all the while using it as an opportunity to educate the poor schmuck who got assigned to "escort" me. :P

    -adamsesq

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    Well, I think its a great service.. having someone there to hand my shopping items to if I have to draw my weapon.. very good idea! J

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    Have you called Joes to see if they cleared up the issue of OC and what there policy is. I don't have any tollerance for not allowing you to carry and I will boycott Joes.

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    I just Emailed Joe's from their website and it states I should have a response within a couple of days.

    When I get a response, I'll post my letter, too.

    ...Orygunner...

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    Big Del wrote:
    Have you called Joes to see if they cleared up the issue of OC and what there policy is. I don't have any tollerance for not allowing you to carry and I will boycott Joes.
    +1

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    Orygunner wrote:
    ...He verified that not only had Joe's been robbed at gunpoint very recently, but that 4 other stores in the area had been robbed recently too....
    The managerhas a CHL himself, he said, but they won't let employees carry.
    You'd think he would put two and two together.



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    I got a call today from the VP of Operations at Joe's today, in response to my Email I sent last week.He's the one responsible for making the store policies. First, here's the letter I sent:

    I recently was shopping in the Eugene, Oregon Joe's store and was wearing a holstered handgun that I carry for personal protection. I was suprised when I was asked by a clerk at that store to please remove the magazine from the firearm. I was told by the clerk it was because a recent armed robbery had some of the female clerks nervous about firearms. I complied with the request, but asked to speak with the manager.


    When I spoke to the manager (I think I remember his name was Dave?) we had a nice discussion and he didn't seem to have a problem with me carrying my holstered firearm while shopping in the store. He stated he wasn't quite sure what the official policy was, but he was going to find out.


    Both the clerk and the manager were very polite and nice to speak with, and the manager was especially concerned to make sure I wasn't offended by the clerk's request.


    Many retail stores either have no policy, or their policy is that whatever is allowed by state law is allowed in their store when it comes to firearms carried for personal protection (either carried concealed or open).


    Can you please verify if Joe's policy is similar to that (falls in line with state law), or if there is any official policy at all?


    Thank you,
    We talked for about 45 minutes. I'm not going to go through much detail, but here's what I got from the conversation:

    • He has an extensive firearms background, and is a tactical weapons specialist.
    • He is aware of the OC movement, and supports the right to concealed carry and open carry (even though he would probably never choose to OC himself, he said).
    • From a business standpoint, he has to consider the comfort of the diverse customer and employee base that doesn't know or understand firearms.
    • Joes now has an officialNO OC policy, mainly due to a recentincident at an Idaho Joe's store where three people were OCing and were VERY confrontational (He stated he saw the videotape and one of the OCers even had his hand on his firearm!).

    I admit I came across as somewhat hostile and pushy at the beginning of our conversation, and this man was a gentleman, polite, and very civil. I explained my reasons for OCing (The possibility ofchanging public perceptionis more worth itthan the very slight risk of being targeted first), and our conversation went very well after that.

    He seems to be like a very reasonable, open minded person, fully supports firearms rights, and is open to change. At this point he seems to be ok with Concealed Carry in the store, but I think he feels he has to disallow OC in his stores to avoid upsetting customers and employees.

    I strongly suggest writing him through Joe's "Contact Us" form:
    http://www.joessports.com/helpdesk/i...isplay=contact

    He says all comments cross his desk, so this is our chance to emphasize to him that we appreciate his desire to make customers and employees comfortable, and that WE are more comfortable carrying our personal protection firearms while we shop in their stores. Describe your positive experiences OCing, etc. Let him know if most people you encounter are not bothered by OCing and issues are rare.

    Please don't blast him, the company, or its policy. We don't need to school him on the 2nd Amendment or gun rights, he's already on our side! His decision is purely from a business standpoint for the comfort of his employees and customers (and avoiding more problems like the one in Idaho).

    I don't think we need to put Joes on a "Do Not Patronize" list. They are NOT Anti-Gun or Anti-Rights, they are a business trying to consider the majority of their customers.

    ...Orygunner...







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    I will no longer shop at Joe's and will tell every person I know not to shop there as well.

    If you don't allow peaceful people to protect themselves, how is that not being anti-liberty?

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    NaT805 wrote:
    I will no longer shop at Joe's and will tell every person I know not to shop there as well.

    If you don't allow peaceful people to protect themselves, how is that not being anti-liberty?
    I would not go that far, yet. It sounds as if there is a chance to persuade them. I say give that a chance first before crucifying them.

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    Cremator75 wrote:
    NaT805 wrote:
    I will no longer shop at Joe's and will tell every person I know not to shop there as well.

    If you don't allow peaceful people to protect themselves, how is that not being anti-liberty?
    I would not go that far, yet. It sounds as if there is a chance to persuade them. I say give that a chance first before crucifying them.
    This is my way of persuading them. As long as open carry is not allowed, they're not getting my money.

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    How would you suggest we influence them if not with our dollars? If the store policy against OC is because of the needs of the customers, then what option do we have other than voting with our wallets?

    I for one am so sick of arbitrary policies put in place by feebs. Besides, Joes is a sporting and outdoorsman store!?I think anybody that sold ammo, guns and shooting supplies would be more respectful of our rights! Obviously I wouldnt expect Bed Bath and Beyond to encourage OC, but Joes?!

    I would rather spend more some place else that allow Joes to grow fatter while they discriminate against me!

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    Orygunner wrote:
    I got a call today from the VP of Operations at Joe's today, in response to my Email I sent last week.He's the one responsible for making the store policies.
    • Joes now has an officialNO OC policy, mainly due to a recentincident at an Idaho Joe's store where three people were OCing and were VERY confrontational (He stated he saw the videotape and one of the OCers
    ...Orygunner...
    The bolded portion tells it all right there. Also, this is why I was against the person who wanted to press WalMart Corporate to publish a policy. Being confrontational will likely receive the opposite of the intended result, and Orygunner was the one who received the message that the others caused.

    Confident compliance with existing policies, while striving to educate others will go a lot farther than angry confrontations will.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Ask for a copy of the video in Idaho.

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    Several comments guys... from Idaho.

    I was one of the three guys that Joe's confronted at one time... though there must have been a separate incident... just told that we couldn't have guns in the store, and at NO time did any of us even brush or accidentally touch our guns or adjust them or anything else like that. After a brief (and amicable, not at all hostile, though a bit frustrated) exchange we let them know that we would not do business with them any further and had many friends who would not do business with them. We also let them know that they are one of only two or three stores in the local valley that prohibits guns and that their decision is theirs to make, we respect private property rights and that is why we will take our money elsewhere. One of the people behind the gun counter also said that OC was illegal accordign to state law. Gives you an idea of how informed and smart they are. Idaho is one of the only states where OC is not only legal because it's not illegal, but it's specifically mentioned in law that it is legal.

    For the record. The "policy" against carrying of firearms in their store was in place prior to our 'incident,' so to state that it was because of an Idaho Joe's is unlikely (still, it could be another Joes or another time I guess)... though the Meridian Joe's is not the only one. Lemme know if you get the tape (unlikely) cause I'd like to know who it is and what happened.

    Another point - anyone who consideres himself a "tactical weapons specialist" is a poser, moron, or fake. :P Nobody in the real world who knows what they're talking about would say that. It smacks of "mall ninja commando" to me.

    Lastly, the Oregon manager you reference is your typical "i have a CWP, thus I am pro gun" rubbish. His actions say otherwise. He won't let employees carry there even though he doesn't know if it's even prohibited by corporate policy.

    All in all, Joe's is a "no spend" zone for me. They are illogical, stupid, ill-informed and anti-civil rights... why support people like that? :P

    p.s. - can you get more info on the Idaho incident for me, like time which store etc. That'd be very helpful for our cause over here! Thanks guys! Stay safe, stay polite!

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    Sounds like Joe's is a "Gun Free Zone" now...

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    NaT805 wrote:
    Sounds like Joe's is a "Gun Free Zone" now...
    Looking like they are moving that direction. You think they would mind if you borrowed one of theirs from behind the counter in case of emergency??

    James

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Ask for a copy of the video in Idaho.
    I just chatted with the The Joe's VP of Operations again, and he said that unfortunately they re-use the tapes and this one is no longer available.

    This guy really seems to bewilling to listen and address this issue. He even followed up with me after his first call via Email and gave me another call today, so he's obviously not just blowing this off.

    I've also gotten personal phone calls from the store manager and the safety & security manager for the company (I think that was her title) making sure I had been contacted on this issue. If they weren't serious about investigating and addressing the OC issue, they could just make their policy and not bother to contact us personally.

    Joe's is a business. Theno OC policy is not because they areAnti-Gun. Ever had a friend ask you to remove your shoes in their house? Is it because they're Anti-Shoe, or is it because theybelieve they have other reasons they consider to be more important (brand new clean carpet)? At this point they believe their customers and employees would be best served by not allowing OC. WE can help change this!

    The VP of Operations recognizes that this is a very important issue, and he told me he is in process of checking on both Sportsmans and Cabela's policies for comparison. The "no OC" policy is certainly not set in stone, and he told me the policies may change rapidly.

    They need to hear from people who support Open Carry and want to see this policy changed in Joe's stores. If you want to boycott them until the policy is changed,fine! I'm not suggesting you should continue shopping at a place when you don't agree with a policy. Just send them an Email (or call them) to tell them that and respectfully tell them why.

    Even suggesting a simple policy to train employees to understand that someone peacefully OCing is legal, and does not pose a threat to the employees or other customers. Suggest to put guidelines in place to deal with those that are not peaceably carrying, or if they are bringing in a firearm to find ammunition,accessories, or try out holsters.

    http://www.joessports.com/helpdesk/index.jsp?display=store&subdisplay=contact

    There's a phone number or two on that page as well if you'd rather call them.

    If we can let them know how many of their customers really care about this issue, and that WE are not the cause of any problems, I really feel we have a chance to help change this policy for the better.

    ...Orygunner...




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    I have followed up with a comment to Joe's. I did let them know I would be reducing my trips to their store due to their current policy restricting OC. I tried to be educational on my reasons and not confrontational due to the chance of changing thier minds. They have always been polite and willing to chat about it from the clerks to floor managers who I have dealt with.

    James

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    I sent in my message, this is one I hope we can work through. I mentioned there is a Walmart across the parking lot that allows OC. I wouldn't think they would want to loose anymore buisness to Walmart then already have.

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    In the beginning of this post it was stated that the reason for not wanting you to OC was because of a robbery atgunpoint recently was it not? I wonder what the BG would've done had he/she walked into that store and saw 20 or 30 people wandering around with guns on their hips? Kind of make you go HUMMMMMMM doesn't it. I used to work at the G.I. Joes in Milwaukie 22 some odd years ago.

    I will only step foot back in your state for personal family reasons, Oregon will never get any of my vacation money as long as it will not allow me to protect myself, having moved to Colorado 16 years ago, Oregondoes not recognize either my Colorado or Utah concealed permits. For that matter, does Oregon recognize any other states permits?

    Jesus Christ you people aren't allowed to pump you own gas but you are allowed to carry guns.

    I must say though I sure liked watching that poor shelp standing in the rain pumping my gas.

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    jmar254 wrote:
    In the beginning of this post it was stated that the reason for not wanting you to OC was because of a robbery atgunpoint recently was it not? I wonder what the BG would've done had he/she walked into that store and saw 20 or 30 people wandering around with guns on their hips? Kind of make you go HUMMMMMMM doesn't it. I used to work at the G.I. Joes in Milwaukie 22 some odd years ago.

    I will only step foot back in your state for personal family reasons, Oregon will never get any of my vacation money as long as it will not allow me to protect myself, having moved to Colorado 16 years ago, Oregondoes not recognize either my Colorado or Utah concealed permits. For that matter, does Oregon recognize any other states permits?

    Jesus Christ you people aren't allowed to pump you own gas but you are allowed to carry guns.

    I must say though I sure liked watching that poor shelp standing in the rain pumping my gas.
    Yes Oregon is an odd little state, not as well off as some states, not as bad as others.. I certainlylove being back here from California.. (no offense Ca)

    J



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    Living in NY most of my life....I am loving Oregon!!!

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