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Thread: Slain Student called 911 but no one came in time

  1. #1
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    Absolutely horrifying. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/16/...man/index.html

    Student was being killed while on the phone with 911. Police did not show up for 48 minutes. This is why everyone, especially females, should be carrying. If nothing else, at LEAST Mace.


    NEW YORK (CNN) -- Brittany Zimmerman, a 21-year-old college student who wanted to be a doctor, called 911 as she was being attacked by a stranger, police say.

    Brittany Zimmerman's screams and struggle for her life were captured by a 911 tape.

    But the police did not come for 48 minutes. By that time, Zimmerman was dead. Her fiance found her body.

    Although the dispatcher claimed later to have heard nothing, the 911 tape captured screams, gasps and what sounds like a struggle, according to the court documents.

    Spring was in the air when college student Zimmerman returned April 2 from classes at the University of Wisconsin to the off-campus apartment she shared with her fiance, Jordan Gonnering.

    He was out when she arrived home. He discovered her body when he returned.

    Zimmerman had been stabbed multiple times in her chest, near her heart. She'd also been beaten and strangled, according to warrants released recently. Watch an update on the case »

    Zimmerman managed to call 911 at 12:20 p.m. The call was taken by the Dane County 911 center and an internal investigation revealed the dispatcher did not hear any sounds that would signal an emergency.

    Because of that, police were not sent to the apartment until 48 minutes after Zimmerman made the call. Her fiance was already there.

    Dane County has taken some harsh criticism from the public regarding the delay, and tough questions have been raised about whether a prompt response might have saved Zimmerman's life.

    Police are still looking for her killer.

    "We are working diligently on this case, have generated significant leads, and are making progress," said Joel De Spain of the Madison Police Department.

    The police said they believe Zimmerman was attacked by a stranger. Her apartment door showed signs of forced entry.

    After interviews with Zimmerman's family, friends and acquaintances, investigators determined there was no personal motive for the attack.

    "In fact, we have not been able to determine any motive yet in this case," De Spain said. He emphasized that police have no reason to believe Zimmerman was the victim of a serial killer.

    During the investigation, police have tracked leads pointing to vagrants in Zimmerman's off-campus neighborhood. The vagrants often would knock on doors and beg for money.

    "We are still investigating this avenue, but at this time we have not been able to develop any specific suspects," De Spain said.

    Zimmerman's family and friends describe her as a loving, warm young woman, who had much to look forward to. She was engaged to the love of her life and had dreams of earning a medical degree, they said. She was idealistic, and her goal was to help people, not to earn a large salary, they said.

    Other details in the released warrants reveal that Zimmerman was murdered in her bedroom, that her cell phone was found in "parts," and that her bloody slippers and bloody computer paper were recovered.

    The murder weapon is described as a knife, two to five inches long. Police are not saying whether they have recovered it.

    DNA was collected from Zimmerman's body, as well as hair, blood samples, footprints and fingerprints. So far, no match has been made to a suspect.

    Zimmerman's family is offering a $14,000 reward, and Crime Stoppers is offering $1,000 for tips leading to the arrest and/or conviction of anyone responsible for Zimmerman's death. Please call the tip line at 608-266-6014.

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    No content in the URL. NO date. In 'Cold Case File'. Still on point.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    No content in the URL.* NO date.* In 'Cold Case File'.* Still on point.

    Either we are equal or we are not.* Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.* NRA *******
    I believe this happened in April of this year. A similar case happened in January about a mile from this case, and about a mile and a half away, another similar case from the previous June.

    "Police have made no connections between these events, but they can see their similarities." according to the accompanied video.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Absolutely horrifying. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/16/...man/index.html


    NEW YORK (CNN) -- Brittany Zimmerman, a 21-year-old college student who wanted to be a doctor, called 911 as she was being attacked by a stranger, police say.

    Brittany Zimmerman's screams and struggle for her life were captured by a 911 tape.

    But the police did not come for 48 minutes. By that time, Zimmerman was dead. Her fiance found her body.
    I am stricken with great sadness and anger. It is times like these when my children's lives flash in front of my face and I want to take off work and just go home and hold them. It's time like these when we realize that this is the world we live in, whether we like it or not.

    I'll pray for her mother, her family, and her poor dear father. May God rest her soul.



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    Sad sad news. Condolences to her family and fiance.





    Zimmerman managed to call 911 at 12:20 p.m. The call was taken by the Dane County 911 center and an internal investigation revealed the dispatcher did not hear any sounds that would signal an emergency.

    Because of that, police were not sent to the apartment until 48 minutes after Zimmerman made the call. Her fiance was already there.

    Dane County has taken some harsh criticism from the public regarding the delay, and tough questions have been raised about whether a prompt response might have saved Zimmerman's life.

    Police are still looking for her killer.
    I believe the argument is, "why do you need a gun? Just call the police"

    This news is precisely why. Not necessarily because they take too long might and not get there in time. But because even if you managed to call, if you have barely a voice, you are disregarded by dispatchers who make bad judgment calls. Do you really want to put your life, not in the hands of the police, but a wild-guessing dispatcher?? No way



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    On 2nd Thought !!!
    Zimmerman managed to call 911 at 12:20 p.m. The call was taken by the Dane County 911 center and an internal investigation revealed the dispatcher did not hear any sounds that would signal an emergency.

    Because of that, police were not sent to the apartment until 48 minutes after Zimmerman made the call. Her fiance was already there
    I thought Dialing 911, DID SIGNAL AN EMERGENCY !!!

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    Dustin wrote:
    On 2nd Thought !!!*
    Zimmerman managed to call 911 at 12:20 p.m. The call was taken by the Dane County 911 center and an internal investigation revealed the dispatcher did not hear any sounds that would signal an emergency.

    Because of that, police were not sent to the apartment until 48 minutes after Zimmerman made the call. Her fiance was already there
    I thought Dialing 911, DID SIGNAL AN EMERGENCY !!!
    Not always, so many people abuse the system that they prioritize calls for service. Some calls are held for several hours depending on how busy it is. Obviously, this one should have been "toned out" and units should have gone code to the call. This is one of the many reasons people should OC and CC.

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    Dustin wrote
    I thought Dialing 911, DID SIGNAL AN EMERGENCY !!!

    Only to folks with common sense.

    As nitrovic pointed out, the system is abused by callers. In turn dispatchers use their own discretion as to what actually constitutes an emergency and what doesn't. Once again, the lowest common denominators of our society dictate how the rest of us are treated.

    Now the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves.

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    I'd like to see those statistics. How many students prank call that they are being attacked I wonder ?

    Sad .... but True.

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    Dustin wrote:
    I'd like to see those statistics. How many students prank call that they are being attacked I wonder ?

    Sad .... but True.
    Its probably made even worse with the red poles around campus. The poles have a big blue button that connect right to 911 with a speaker and microphone. I'm guessing a lot of drunken idiots go around and press the button and leave.

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    Brigdh wrote:
    Its probably made even worse with the red poles around campus.* The poles have a big blue button that connect right to 911 with a speaker and microphone.* I'm guessing a lot of drunken idiots go around and press the button and leave.
    Yeah, here in Ann Arbor MI (home to the Wolverines), we have blue light phones everywhere. It's as easy as a button push, and the public safety officers MUST respond, whether or not someone's on the other end. I've not heard of much abuse, only that the average response time for a call is around 4 minutes (which, while decent, is a heck of a lot of time to be waiting when you need them).

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    nitrovic wrote:
    Not always, so many people abuse the system that they prioritize calls for service. Some calls are held for several hours depending on how busy it is. Obviously, this one should have been "toned out" and units should have gone code to the call. This is one of the many reasons people should OC and CC.
    Not to mention the delays that can be caused simply trying to get through to a person at 911 in a major urban area.

    Saturday night a car fire was starting near the Staples center in downtown Los Angeles. I was on hold for litterally 12 minutes before a person came on the line. In that ammount of time it went from a very small fire-extinguisher managable fire to a full engulfment.

    Another odd occurance, at about the 2 minute mark an LAPD unit pulled up right next to me on the corner...even though I was waving my arms franticly and ultimately pounded on his rear passenger window as he drove away...he didn't stop!

    Just as someone came on the phone at 911 a different LAPD unit showed up. I told the 911 operator that an LAPD unit just pulled up and she simply hung up....wierd

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    Abuse of discretion is precisely my accusation of cops as represented by luser=6722. J accuse!

    May I gently suggest that loss of property and especially minor property is not an emergency? As an 'emergency' it is abuse of the commons by an individual afraid to accept the personal loss and inconvenience.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. In this case 48 minutes away.

    In 48 minutes a person could murder the residents of the house, load up all ofthe valuables, have a couple of beers, and make a couple of sandwiches for the road.:shock:

    Yes, depending on the police for your safety and security is a good idea.

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    mjones wrote:
    nitrovic wrote:
    Not always, so many people abuse the system that they prioritize calls for service. Some calls are held for several hours depending on how busy it is. Obviously, this one should have been "toned out" and units should have gone code to the call. This is one of the many reasons people should OC and CC.
    Not to mention the delays that can be caused simply trying to get through to a person at 911 in a major urban area.

    Saturday night a car fire was starting near the Staples center in downtown Los Angeles. I was on hold for litterally 12 minutes before a person came on the line. In that ammount of time it went from a very small fire-extinguisher managable fire to a full engulfment.

    Another odd occurance, at about the 2 minute mark an LAPD unit pulled up right next to me on the corner...even though I was waving my arms franticly and ultimately pounded on his rear passenger window as he drove away...he didn't stop!

    Just as someone came on the phone at 911 a different LAPD unit showed up. I told the 911 operator that an LAPD unit just pulled up and she simply hung up....wierd
    I had the king of all 911 hang ups a couple years ago (while off duty). I found an amber alert suspect in a car (with the small child still inside) and the 911 operator told me they didn't have any information on it and hung up on me!!! This is after hearing it on the radio!! I had to call another jurisdiction to get help. Luckily everything worked out, but it really was a pretty big mix-up.

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    nitrovic wrote:
    I had the king of all 911 hang ups a couple years ago (while off duty). I found an amber alert suspect in a car (with the small child still inside) and the 911 operator told me they didn't have any information on it and hung up on me!!! This is after hearing it on the radio!! I had to call another jurisdiction to get help. Luckily everything worked out, but it really was a pretty big mix-up.
    There really needs to be accountability for crap like this. a 911 dispatcher should most definitely be held to a high standard, just as police officers and other emergency responders *should*.

    Honestly, they should take Comcast's stance: "When in doubt, roll a truck." aka, if someone calls, you send a response, no matter what.

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    nitrovic wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    nitrovic wrote:
    Not always, so many people abuse the system that they prioritize calls for service. Some calls are held for several hours depending on how busy it is. Obviously, this one should have been "toned out" and units should have gone code to the call. This is one of the many reasons people should OC and CC.
    Not to mention the delays that can be caused simply trying to get through to a person at 911 in a major urban area.

    Saturday night a car fire was starting near the Staples center in downtown Los Angeles. I was on hold for litterally 12 minutes before a person came on the line. In that ammount of time it went from a very small fire-extinguisher managable fire to a full engulfment.

    Another odd occurance, at about the 2 minute mark an LAPD unit pulled up right next to me on the corner...even though I was waving my arms franticly and ultimately pounded on his rear passenger window as he drove away...he didn't stop!

    Just as someone came on the phone at 911 a different LAPD unit showed up. I told the 911 operator that an LAPD unit just pulled up and she simply hung up....wierd
    I had the king of all 911 hang ups a couple years ago (while off duty). I found an amber alert suspect in a car (with the small child still inside) and the 911 operator told me they didn't have any information on it and hung up on me!!! This is after hearing it on the radio!! I had to call another jurisdiction to get help. Luckily everything worked out, but it really was a pretty big mix-up.
    A couple of years ago, a woman in Detroit dialed 911 to report that her husband had just shot her in the abdomen. The 911 operator demanded that the victim put her husband, THE MAN WHO HAD JUST SHOT HER, on the phone.

    A few years ago, I called 911 to report a man unconscious and unresponsive in the gutter in front of a bar in Lakewood, Ohio. The SECOND 911 operator to whom I had to relate the situation said to me, "He's in the gutter? He's on the roof?"

    Back in the early '90s, a friend and I dialed 911 four or five times to report a woman screaming in the Metroparks in Berea, Ohio. When NO police showed up, we drove to the Berea police station. It turns out that the area in question was the responsibility of the Metroparks Rangers, NONE of whom EVER showed up. A couple of Berea PD officers coming off shift volunteered to walk the river bank with us to make sure there was no one in trouble. If that hadn't happened, we'd STILL be waiting for the Rangers.

    No, I call 911 with NO expectation of assistance. It's just a way to get myself a reserved spot on the OFFICIAL victim's list. And I live in an area where for the most part the police appear to TRY to help people. In Chicago, I wouldn't even call. What would be the point?
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Not to defend our 911 system, but it's time for a bit of reality here.
    There are extremely few "bad" 911 calls such as those listed above, compared to the millions upon millions received each year that are responded to quickly (relative term, mind you). This is not an "every other call" case.

    On the flip side of this reality tho, who wants to risk being part of that tiny percentage that dies waiting 48 minutes? Not me!!!

    911 for me is a call to the maid. They are nothing more than the clean up crew to "tidy" up after the fact.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    nitrovic wrote:
    I had the king of all 911 hang ups a couple years ago (while off duty). I found an amber alert suspect in a car (with the small child still inside) and the 911 operator told me they didn't have any information on it and hung up on me!!! This is after hearing it on the radio!! I had to call another jurisdiction to get help. Luckily everything worked out, but it really was a pretty big mix-up.
    There really needs to be accountability for crap like this. a 911 dispatcher should most definitely be held to a high standard, just as police officers and other emergency responders *should*.

    Honestly, they should take Comcast's stance: "When in doubt, roll a truck." aka, if someone calls, you send a response, no matter what.
    Not anymore, Comcast now makes you argue with someone, get hung up on 3 times and threaten legal action before they finally send someone out to fix a problem. Oh, and then cancel the appointment the first time while you sit around all day and wonder why nobody is showing up. Yeah, I just had that kind of fun. Anyways, back on topic, just had to rant about how untrue that is.

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    Appalling! I don't know how else to describe it.. unconscionable. How dare our employees, as in our elected "officials and police", disarm our family members on the pretext of some ridiculous gun-free nonsense and over the bodies of helpless victims just to advance their absurd agenda.

    How dare they even suggest we cannot carry the one item that has been proven time and time again to protect the weak and outnumbered to stave off harm and mayhem.

    How dare they imagine they know better than we when it comes to our own decisions about our safety and our protection.

    How dare they breathe the same air as those whose lives have been snuffed out because of their calloused disregard for our most sacred right.


    You know, there are times when I have to admit I wish one or more of these festering maggots would suffer the consequences of their own stupidity and lose a spouse, parent, or child because of their steadfast ignorance. The moral side of me says "no", don't think this way, but the more base side says, "yes", maybe then they'll learn the sheer folly of their arrogance.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    A terrible thing for that to happen. A young woman with her whole life ahead of her. I have two daughters both grown, who at a very early age I taught gun safety and then trained them to shoot. My youngest lives here in town not 5 minutes from me. My Eldest is in AZ. I've had bad dreams about this type scenario, not so much about the youngest, but the eldest as she's not far from Phoenix, and does not possess a firearm no matter how much I've pleaded with her to get one.
    I'd call 911 only after the fact to report "I've had shots fired and have a wounded person in my house, better send an ambulance"
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    I have chosen to live in smaller cities for most of my life where LE is pretty quick to respond. Most of the places I have lived, typical emergency call response time has been about 2 minutes. Too long if you are being stabbed to death, but pretty darn good as a practical matter unless one wants to live in a police state with LE on every street corner (and who wants to pay for that). Most of the places I have lived (excepting Chicago) the vast majority of LEOs seem to really care about the community and their fellow citizens.

    But even in those communities, given that 2 minutes is plenty of time to kill multiple people, for any LE affiliated individual to suggest, support, sponsor or push for the disarming of the people is criminal, so to speak. For the LE professional leadership and union leadership they are in an ironic situation. Their business is in essence to take bad people off the street. The more laws and the more bad people and the less able the population to legally defend themselves and their possessions from bad people, the more job security for their "constituents", the bigger their budgets and salaries. It is the inmates running the asylum to some extent. I doubt that most LEOs on the street, who mostly support and defend our rights to be armed and defend ourselves, typically think about their leadership in these terms, just as most Americans don't think of their government in critical thinking terms.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I don't know why this is such a shock! The courts have already said it is not the PD's job to protect the individual, but only to protect the citizens as a whole!

    It was decided over a girl that was raped and beaten and the other 2 girl next door called 911 with no response. So they tried to help and got raped and beaten also. Court through out the case.




    You protection is ultimately our responsibility.

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    Gun-grabbers will fail to see that a gun ban couldn't have stopped this stabbing, and furthermore the only way to prevent would have been to arm the victim.

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