PLease help...Trip to Springfield/Dayton

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I am heading up to Springfield/Dayton area to see my father-in-law for the holidays. I have a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) from the state of Texas but Ohio does not recognize it so I cannot conceal carry there. I was wondering what the laws were in the Springfield/Dayton area for open carry and how the authorities react towards it? I always carry here in Texas and know the laws very well. I want to carry in Ohio but I want to know the laws before I do. Any help will be great and I thank you all in advance!





Proud member of: VFW, American Legion, AMVETS, KofC, NRA and North American Hunting Club.

WE MUST FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS!!!

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OC is legal here (on foot anyway - not while transporting in a vehicle), but the police may well take an interest in what you're up to despite this. I had a very bad experience in Dayton with guns and cops, and I was just transporting one (a gun, not a cop). I've also been "let go" (partly because I wasn't breaking the law) after traffic stops there where they took an interest in my vehicle contents on my way back from the range. I recommend that you do not answer questions and do not consent to searches, if you have any discretion in the matter. Too bad if they don't like it. Most stops there are adversarial or they wouldn't be stopping you. There is indeed a lot of crime in certain areas - drugs, hookers, robberies, etc. and they seem tolike to use the imaginary "bad/high-crime neighborhood" exception to the Bill of Rights in stopping people. Apart from being a gross violation of the constitution, if these tactics worked, the place wouldn't still be a cesspool. But I digress...

Also, note that magazines/speed loadershave to be empty while transporting firearms, if you don't have a recognized permit.

-ljp

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thanks for the info and the heads up...

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While this is being discussed, what is an acceptible way to transport now without a permit? "Legba's law"renders the handgun concealed if it is in a case in a vehicle (only in Dayton, only while trying to eat). We've already established that Mags/speed loaders have to be unloaded...


Do I transport my handgun unconcealed, (action locked back), empty mags, and loose rounds in the passenger seat?

Is leaving the handgun holstered and unloaded, empty mags and loose rounds in the cupholder OK?


IMO there's still way too many unknowns with the carry laws in this state. I got my permit just to take care of some of the confusion. This "in a holster, on your person" kills me too. I would like to have a dedicated holster for the car, mounted securely and accessible only to me. Seems like OH law doesn't allow this.

Make sure you carry when you're in KY! Get off at the last Covington exit in KY (right before you cross the Ohio River) and stop into the Speedway around the corner (make a left at the first stoplight after you exit). They are a good place to unload (right next to the on ramp) and OC friendly, one clerk actually explained OC to the other clerk while I was in the store one night



(Edit: added smileys to denote that "Legba's Law" doesn't really exist, and would indeed be funny except for the really crappy story attached to it.)

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i will be looking for that speedway. thanks for the info

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V8 - you can transport in either way you described. The salient point under the current law is that for a weapon to be fully "unloaded" you can't have any rounds chambered or the cylinder must be empty, and the magazines and speedloaders have to be empty. They don't elaborate beyond that about storing ammo. Thepertinent ORC sections are here about transport and carry, respectively:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16and

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12.

I would prefer not to have anything called "Legba's law" as a precedent, although I did find myself in the somewhat magical condition of having a handgun that was both in plain view and concealed at the same time... Just goes to show you how variable the police response can be over, well, nothing.

I did just get my permit and I noticed a cop behind me this morning. I didn't have my ham radio so I couldn't tell if he was running my plates, but he didn't stop me. If I get treated better for having the permit (that gets flagged when they run your plates here), so be it. I've paid all the dues I care to.

-ljp

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So noted. I probably wouldn't have a permit now if I hadn't read your story and realized how much you got screwed when you weren't doing anything wrong.

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I have in the past called the state police to verify how to transport a handgun.

I was told to have the action open and or a gun lock in place not required but much better if your stopped, in the truck of the car so that when and if they open up the truck it will be in plain site locked or zipped tied Thur the receiver. mags empty locked in the glove box, ammo should be as far away from the mags. if rev. then ammo locked in glove box and gun in the truck lock Thur the barrel and cylinder open.

I have gotten different stories on this from different state troopers. I right down what the officer says , then repeat it to him and get his info.

If you have an suv , no trunk then take a lock box put the gun action open if possible or zipped tied Thur the barrel and lock it in the box no ammo or mags. in lock box. put it in the back as far from you the driver as possible. ammo rules apply as above depending on revolver or semi auto.

If your of a different state and you have a conceal carry permit. I suggest you do the same as if you are in your state. because two things are going to happen. they will run your lic. and if its like ohio you are going to show up as having a ccw permit. so treat it the same as home. OHio will treat you just like your an ohio ccw permit if they know you have one up front. but make sure you tell them its not on you and stored in the truck action open bla bla bla. you get the point . no need to be taken out at gun point because you come up as a ccw permit holder and didnt tell them you have a gun in the car.

The gun and ammo and mags for legal transport need to be as many steps as possible to get to and as far apart from you and each other . just dont bury it all like your trying to hide it if they look.

these are common sense guidelines. If you get stopped they will see you took the time to do it as best as you could and did everything you could to inform them . but they will already know you are a ccw permit holder.

if your not a ccw permit holder and open carry. then use your own digression as to say you have a weapon in the car. again you dont have to consent to a search. but what is probable cause anyhow. If you do consent to a search do your self a favor tell them before they open the truck , or glove box. and if you carry your empty holster on your side , they have probable cause to search your car. so put the holster in the trunk too. unless you plan on telling them you have it in the first place. most criminals dont tell , most law abiding people do tell. That is how you will be looked at.

might be hard to say your going to the gun range , but you could say your moving home to ohio, or going to be here for about a month and plan on going to the range with whoever. or your going to gift the gun to your whoever relative.

good luck, safe trip. and keep both hands on the wheel when stopped. and as always verify verify verify.

call the STATE OF OHIO Troopers to find out what they want. record the conversation for proof to play say the number and time of day you called. then if you have to play the recording to a local police.

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Legba wrote:

.......
I did just get my permit and I noticed a cop behind me this morning. I didn't have my ham radio so I couldn't tell if he was running my plates, but he didn't stop me. If I get treated better for having the permit (that gets flagged when they run your plates here), so be it. I've paid all the dues I care to.

-ljp

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Congrats. Glad to see you got your permit. This summer I think Dayton needs a Open carry walk...

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Thanks. Yes, I am fully reinstated as a citizen, and nowwith a carry permit to boot.

Also, I don't agree that having an empty holster on your belt constitutes probable cause. It might be weird; it might make a cop uncomfortable; but it's not illegal, nor does it prove that you even have a gun. I'd be curious if that even satisfied the RAS "Terry" standard by itself. And as our new friend n9isaham admitted, you will get different answers about what is legal depending on what LEO you ask. Hardly definitive. I prefer the actual text of the Revised Code asa primary text, and case law as needed for clarification.

-ljp

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It great to be a part of this group. I just want to talk about why the empty holster can be an issue when pulled over, and you say nothing about it.

Case law is great once your in a court setting, but in the field your looked at by LEOs each one trained that everyone could have a gun during a traffic stop. So my comment on the empty holster is from this point.

you get pulled over, you dont say anything about carring a gun or not. You are not a ccw permit holder. I ask you to get out of the car , you comply and as you do I see an empty holster on your side.

You are going to go down to the ground quick by force. or at gun point. at this point there is a preceived threat to my life. if the gun is not in your holster, where is it ? in your hand. in the car hidden. a passenger has it. you tossed it. I would say that once there is a preceived threat ones car could be searched. It will be up to the lawyers to say if it was legal or not. Then case law or the Ohio Revised Code come into play. but the expenses of court could have been avoided by what i was refering to before. and was only pointed to an open carry or Nonrecipicating stateccw permit holder transporting a gun in Ohio.

I would love to see every law abiding personwear an empty holster or a weaponholster. because then criminals would think twice about hurting just anyone.

The Police can not protect and serve everyone , everywhere all the time. Its up to the individual to protect themselves and there families.

Hope this claifies my comment on the empty holster. may not be anything wrong with carrying an empty hoslter but your not judged the same in the street as your are in court. different rules. just my opinion on that.

stay safe this holiday season.

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does anyone else have any info on actually open carrying in the springfield/dayton area?

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XtremeDuty.45 wrote:

does anyone else have any info on actually open carrying in the springfield/dayton area?

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Read AG booklet - read page 18 - open carry

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/200808_ccw_book.pdf

Also read the following

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

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n8 - among other things, I did have an empty holster ony my belt when I got "busted" in Dayton. The cops did not pull on me, throw me to the ground, etc (although one did make a point of threatening me with a beating). They did take an interest in why I had it on andwhere the gun was, etc. but they had already decided I was going to jail just as soon as they could settle on what to charge me with. They took more interest in the closed gun case and the location of the ammo/magazines. An empty holster is no threat.

It's also worth noting that I wasn't even indicted for the charge they originally arrested me under. Even the prosecutor got it wrong and had to re-present the case to the grand jury under another charge, so I have extremely little faith that any of these people are experts at anything. If they had bothered to read the Ohio Revised Code themselves...

I did opine that I don't believe that having an empty holster of itself constitutes probable cause, so I was responsive, if not satisfactorily, to your question. Cops will ultimately do what they want, legally or otherwise, true. It's not sufficient to trust the courts to sort it out. You need to know the law to have any hope of successfully arguing it at trial. For better or worse, the statutes dont address empty holsters, so we are stuck with pouring over case law for any guidance. That or we can throw the dice asking LEOs for what are often contradictory answers.

-ljp

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Update on the trip? How was your stay?