Asked to Disarm

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Unless they have been given the authority to act at their own discretion by corporate, you are right.

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And that is why, if you are asked to leave, leave and sort it out later (If you cannot convince the manager there otherwise on the spot easily).

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I have OC'd into a number of Verizon stores, a number of times (Warrenton and Manassas) without problem. I even had a sales person notice it after talking for a few minutes and then jokingly say "I give good deal, you no shoot me!" while making gun symbols with his thumb/index finger. We both had a little laugh and I told him no, it is for self defense only, but about those deals...

I was probably wearing a Polo and Jeans or the like, and am generally clean cut, if not a little scruffy (don't particularly like to shave on my days off).

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hsmith wrote:

Unless they have been given the authority to act at their own discretion by corporate, you are right.

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And that is why, if you are asked to leave, leave and sort it out later (If you cannot convince the manager there otherwise on the spot easily).

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and when you sort it out be sure to go about it in a way that won't make the store end up posting the property.

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Here is the problem with all of this. If a store or the manager of a store wants to close his shop to firearms, fine. Put up a sign to that effect. By not doing that they are treating different people differently. That is just plane unreasonable.

There is a provision in Virginia law specifically for use by property owners and their authorized agents to use to limit access to their property by persons who are armed. IF firearms owners are expected to respect the property owners rights, then the property owner should comply with the law in enforcing them. A small 8x10 sign on the door would solve the issue in ALL of these cases.

The only reason they could possibly have for NOT putting up a sign is that it advertises their position on firearms and self defense and it might cost them some business. Also it affords them the opportunity to allow certain people to carry and prohibit others. Hence the question (which we have all heard before) that was put to the OP before he was asked to leave.

Regards

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Are you a LEO?

I am not in a position to discuss my employment with you. Please identify yourself.

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Nelson_Muntz wrote:

Are you a LEO?

I am not in a position to discuss my employment with you. Please identify yourself.

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The original poster said the man had a name tag on.

I guess it was pretty obvious he was speaking with a Verizon employee?

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Oh, OK. Your employment is none of Verizon's business. Unless you are applying with them for a job.

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I believe he meant it more like:

VZW Employee: "Are you a LEO?"

Openly carrying customer: "I am not in a position to discuss my employment with you. Please identify yourself."

(Much more effective if you whip out a little notebook, then mumble something about being required to report all suspicious inquiries to your suprieriors, and there's 30 minutes of paperwork that you just didn't want to deal with...)



TFred

ETA: Notebook

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Nelson_Muntz wrote:

Oh, OK. Your employment is none of Verizon's business. Unless you are applying with them for a job.

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True.

But it gets back to what I have said here many times.... when a person sees another person openly carrying a firearm, they often automatically assume the person is a cop. The Verizon manager was probablyhoping to verify he wasn't asking a real cop to disarm, corporate would certainly take a dim viewon that.

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I understand your point sherriff. They can ask, but you don't have to discuss personal details with anyone. You could say that you may or may not be a LEO, you may or may not be an attorney, but one thing you certainly are is a customer.

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STORE MANAGER - "Excuse me sir, are you a police officer?'

OCer - "Why do you ask?"

Store Manager - "Well I see you are carrying a gun"

OCer - "Yes I am"

STORE MANAGER - "Well... I need to know if that is legal"

OCer - "Of course it is, you don't think a criminal would be openly carrying a firearm do you?"

Humm ... Maybe just "I don't provide the information"

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Nelson_Muntz wrote:

I understand your point sherriff.  They can ask, but you don't have to discuss personal details with anyone.  You could say that you may or may not be a LEO, you may or may not be an attorney, but one thing you certainly are is a customer.

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Why not just say ,"I'm a citizen, this is my 2nd amendment right". I don't think it's the best idea to get into semantics with the "may or may not" be a police officer. Why bother. You're not wearing a badge or a uniform, and you're not attempting to arrest anybody. Just to spare some possible BS (the employee may take it the wrong way and say you said you were a police officer). Plus, it should be told that citizens CAN and have a right to carry weapons.

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nitrovic wrote:

Nelson_Muntz wrote:

I understand your point sherriff. They can ask, but you don't have to discuss personal details with anyone. You could say that you may or may not be a LEO, you may or may not be an attorney, but one thing you certainly are is a customer.

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Why not just say ,"I'm a citizen, this is my 2nd amendment right". I don't think it's the best idea to get into semantics with the "may or may not" be a police officer. Why bother. You're not wearing a badge or a uniform, and you're not attempting to arrest anybody. Just to spare some possible BS (the employee may take it the wrong way and say you said you were a police officer). Plus, it should be told that citizens CAN and have a right to carry weapons.

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The facts here lead me to beleive that this particular store manager had already been down this road before. The first thing he said after I said "No" to his "are you Law Enforcement? was that he knew that in Virginia I had a right to carry, but that as the manager he also had the right to ask me not to carry inthe store. He was at all times pleasant and professional and he clearly had an encounter with an OC'er in the past or he was just very aware of the laws. He also was not changing his mind, so I did not put up much of an objection as I needed to get my business done and on my way. As I said in my OP, I did want to bring it to the attention of OCDO abd VCDL since if it is VZW policy, then they need to be listed on the VCDL unfriendly list.

I will be looking up some VZW contact information this afternoon to see who I can contact to get the corporate policy on this.

Be Careful Out There!

Paul

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If I was a customer I would call up and complain

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nitrovic wrote:

Why not just say ,"I'm a citizen, this is my 2nd amendment right". I don't think it's the best idea to get into semantics with the "may or may not" be a police officer. Why bother. You're not wearing a badge or a uniform, and you're not attempting to arrest anybody. Just to spare some possible BS (the employee may take it the wrong way and say you said you were a police officer). Plus, it should be told that citizens CAN and have a right to carry weapons.

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I can agree with that Vic. In a perfect world, or when it is being asked by someone who is truly interested. However, when you see the quick approach and "the" question is asked in a particular tone*, you just know that anything you say after "NO" will be a waste of breath.

I don't have to answer personal questions by a shopkeeper. I am not responsible for what a shopkeeper misunderstands, takes the wrong way, or is ignorant on. To include state and federal law as well as the difference between corporate policy on the shopping experience for their guests, and corporate policy in the employee handbook - for employee behavior.

Put it this way, I neither expect to be asked if I am a carpenter, nor do I believe I am required to answer just because I have a hammer hanging out of the loop of my carpenter jeans.

*The particular tone, body language,etc. does not have to be described. You are a cop and, a human, and you can tell the difference in the attitude being telegraphed. I know the OP did not describe a tone, it is used in my example.

That said, I think the OP handled himself very well in the situation. Including his decision to comply with the request for the sake of completing the purchase with his daughter.

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I wonder if this Verizon manager has any idea how many crack dealing thugs have entered his store with weapons concealed in their waistbands? Even if he spotted one, he would most likely be afraid to toss them out of his store.

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Hawkflyer wrote:

Here is the problem with all of this. If a store or the manager of a store wants to close his shop to firearms, fine. Put up a sign to that effect. By not doing that they are treating different people differently. That is just plane unreasonable.

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WRONG!

We dont want signs. Why should one open carry incident screw those who CC and may have business there. You never, ever ask for a sign to be put up.

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ProShooter wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

Here is the problem with all of this. If a store or the manager of a store wants to close his shop to firearms, fine. Put up a sign to that effect. By not doing that they are treating different people differently. That is just plane unreasonable.

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WRONG!

We dont want signs. Why should one open carry incident screw those who CC and may have business there. You never, ever ask for a sign to be put up.

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I don't want signs any more than you do. What I do want is uniformity and consistency. The law provide a way for shop keepers to post the shops as work safety zones for criminals.

All I am saying is that shop owners should use the legal avenue that was provided specifically for their use that is fair and consistent to all of their patrons.

Signs also have the effect of providing a means for me to see which places I do not want to do business with from the comfort of my car. Rather than entering the store and being asked to leave.

I recommend the same thing to my anti gun neighbors. In fact I used to provide them signs to place in their yard or on their front door as follows -

"There are no guns in this house"

Strange, that so few actually hung the signs up.:lol:

So my advice to you would be if you do not want signs then you should lobby to remove that part of the law.

"Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign ":celebrate (Five Man Electrical Band)


Regards

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I don't want to be discriminated against.:X

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ProShooter wrote:

WRONG! We dont want signs. Why should one open carry incident screw those who CC and may have business there. You never, ever ask for a sign to be put up.

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+1