Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Buying a gun in a different state

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    Yes, I'm a NEWB here. So if this question has been answered before, I'm sorry. I currently live in Georgia and am returning back to Pennsylvania for the holidays. I have a good connection with a dealer up there but I'm concerned with the laws. Can I buy a gun (pistol) and travel with it across state lines, then just register it when I get back home? I have a permit for GA.

    Thanks for your help!

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    No. You must be a resident of the state in which you buy a handgun, unless you have a federal firearms license, or you get a licensee in your home state to accept delivery of a gun you ordered from out of state. The dealer in your home state then becomes the point of sale in transferring the piece to you, after the requisite NICS check and any other local requirements are met.

    c.f. 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3).

    -ljp


  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    737

    Post imported post

    Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

    So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

    Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

    ...Orygunner...

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    Thanks! This is what he told me, I just wanted confirmation.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    Orygunner wrote:
    Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

    So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

    Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

    ...Orygunner...
    Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ParkHills, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    a bonafide gift for a person who can legally obtain a firearmis not considereda straw purchase..

    Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

    The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift.

    I have gifted quite a few firearms to my son and he now lives in another state, so I know you don't mean he should have left the firearms in Missouri when he moved..

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    737

    Post imported post

    Gunslinger wrote:
    Orygunner wrote:
    Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

    So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

    Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

    ...Orygunner...
    Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
    Wouldn't they have to PROVE it? If the parties involved are all otherwise law-abiding citizens, and keep their mouths shut... You can only get in trouble if you get caught

    Unfortunately in this country, just 'cuz something is RIGHT doesn't necessarily mean it's LEGAL. I personally would do it however I could get away with it without getting caught...

    ...Orygunner...

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ParkHills, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    Everytime my son comes to visit, he has a new gun to take home with him, and all are free and clear gifted..

  9. #9
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Carnivore wrote:
    Everytime my son comes to visit, he has a new gun to take home with him, and all are free and clear gifted..
    §922. Unlawful acts
    (a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— .......................................

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe DOES NOT reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    737

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    Carnivore wrote:
    Everytime my son comes to visit, he has a new gun to take home with him, and all are free and clear gifted..
    §922. Unlawful acts
    (a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— .......................................

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe DOES NOT reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

    See Carnivore? SHHH!

    What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION.

    ...Orygunner...


    Edited cuz I used the wrong word

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    Carnivore wrote:
    a bonafide gift for a person who can legally obtain a firearmis not considereda straw purchase..

    Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

    The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift.

    I have gifted quite a few firearms to my son and he now lives in another state, so I know you don't mean he should have left the firearms in Missouri when he moved..
    You cannot cross interstate lines to make such a purchase, number one, and number two there is an exception only for a parent gifting a firearm to a child. This does not apply in any other situation, however. Keep in mind intent. This is not buying for a bona fide gift. It is buying to circumvent the law. The chances of getting caught, clearly, are rather small. But the penalty if he is caught is stiff--for both parties.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    Orygunner wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    Orygunner wrote:
    Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

    So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

    Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

    ...Orygunner...
    Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
    Wouldn't they have to PROVE it? If the parties involved are all otherwise law-abiding citizens, and keep their mouths shut... You can only get in trouble if you get caught

    Unfortunately in this country, just 'cuz something is RIGHT doesn't necessarily mean it's LEGAL. I personally would do it however I could get away with it without getting caught...

    ...Orygunner...
    Yes, they would--beyond a reasonable doubt. Imo, however, that would be a piece of cake for the BATF to do based on the clear facts of the action. Chances are you wouldn't get caught, but a chain of events is very clear as to how you would if the BATF did an audit on the selling FFL and then followed up with the buyer as to the travel of the weapon. But it is clearly illegal and not worth the risk, and I advise against it.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    I'm not aware of any parent-child gift exemption to the aforementioned law. As I understand the "bequest" clause, it just refers to inheriting a gun from someone dead who wills it to the recipient.

    -ljp

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    737

    Post imported post

    I also strongly advise against doing anything Illegal.

    <sarcasm>Because, y'know, it MUST be WRONG if there's a law against it...</sarcasm>

    ...I know there's some way to apply the phrase "Civil Disobedience,"but I can't think of a suave way to throw it out there...
    ...Orygunner...



  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ParkHills, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    ROGER THAT !!

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,026

    Post imported post

    When in doubt....go to the horses arse.....er... mouth.

    ATF FORM 4473 (Firearms transfer) Page three, paragraph one:

    1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party. ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a. (emphasis mine)
    I see no restriction to 'family member' to this.

    In fact, several years ago my best friends sister wanted to buy her husband a Ruger super blackhawk(?) .44 mag revolver for hunting. Unfortunately she was only 20 at the time so she had to have her brother do the paperwork.

    Even though he passed the revolver off to his under 21 sister the moment he got it, it was still regarded as a legal (read: not 'straw') purchase because it was a legigitmate gift to her husband.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    150

    Post imported post

    What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION. ...Orygunner...
    Article I Section 8: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"


    I don't like the law, but as much as the Commerce clause has been abused I do think this law fits within the bounds of interstate commerce.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Centennial, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,412

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    I currently have a M91/30 loaned to my dad so he can do a little deer hunting. Not sure when he's going to be done hunting though...

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    You can always make the case that all things are temporary... My pal needs to borrow a gun for target shooting for the next 50 years.

    -ljp

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    737

    Post imported post

    Dom wrote:
    What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION. ...Orygunner...
    Article I Section 8: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"


    I don't like the law, but as much as the Commerce clause has been abused I do think this law fits within the bounds of interstate commerce.
    Any such power, abused or not, is overridden by the 2nd Amendment. RKBA Shall Not Be Infringed.

    As I'm sure we'll all agree

    ...Orygunner...

  21. #21
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    http://www.harrislawoffice.com/conte...e_and_sale.htm



    Good explanation from this law office. TN, but deals with Federal regulations.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  22. #22
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    n fact, several years ago my best friends sister wanted to buy her husband a Ruger super blackhawk(?) .44 mag revolver for hunting. Unfortunately she was only 20 at the time so she had to have her brother do the paperwork.

    Even though he passed the revolver off to his under 21 sister the moment he got it, it was still regarded as a legal (read: not 'straw') purchase because it was a legigitmate gift to her husband.
    This was in fact a straw purchase. The law does not say 'eventually be gifted'. It was purchased on' behalf' of someone else(the sister), not as a gift for that person(the sister). To top it off it was purchased for a 'prohibited' person, under 21.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,026

    Post imported post

    Neg.

    It was purchased as 'a legitimate gift to a third party' which is all that is required under law.

  24. #24
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Beilieve what you will but it was not legal.

    The 3rd party in this case was the sister!! the brother did not buy it as a gift for her.

    Also it was 100% illegal due to her age. He(brother) was buying it for her not her husband. It doesn't matter what she was going to do with it.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  25. #25
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    Beilieve what you will but it was not legal.

    The 3rd party in this case was the sister!! the brother did not buy it as a gift for her.

    Also it was 100% illegal due to her age. He(brother) was buying it for her not her husband. It doesn't matter what she was going to do with it.
    Absolutely correct. A straw purchase and for an underage recipient.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •