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Buying a gun in a different state

Y

Yankee

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Yes, I'm a NEWB here. So if this question has been answered before, I'm sorry. I currently live in Georgia and am returning back to Pennsylvania for the holidays. I have a good connection with a dealer up there but I'm concerned with the laws. Can I buy a gun (pistol) and travel with it across state lines, then just register it when I get back home? I have a permit for GA.

Thanks for your help!
 
L

Legba

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No. You must be a resident of the state in which you buy a handgun, unless you have a federal firearms license, or you get a licensee in your home state to accept delivery of a gun you ordered from out of state. The dealer in your home state then becomes the point of sale in transferring the piece to you, after the requisite NICS check and any other local requirements are met.

c.f. 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3).

-ljp
 
O

Orygunner

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Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

...Orygunner...
 
Gunslinger

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Orygunner wrote:
Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
 
C

Carnivore

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a bonafide gift for a person who can legally obtain a firearmis not considereda straw purchase..

Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift.

I have gifted quite a few firearms to my son and he now lives in another state, so I know you don't mean he should have left the firearms in Missouri when he moved..
 
O

Orygunner

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Gunslinger wrote:
Orygunner wrote:
Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't they have to PROVE it? If the parties involved are all otherwise law-abiding citizens, and keep their mouths shut... You can only get in trouble if you get caught ;)

Unfortunately in this country, just 'cuz something is RIGHT doesn't necessarily mean it's LEGAL. I personally would do it however I could get away with it without getting caught...

...Orygunner...
 
VAopencarry

VAopencarry

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Carnivore wrote:
Everytime my son comes to visit, he has a new gun to take home with him, and all are free and clear gifted..;)
Click to expand...

§922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— .......................................

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe DOES NOT reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
 
O

Orygunner

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VAopencarry wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
Everytime my son comes to visit, he has a new gun to take home with him, and all are free and clear gifted..;)
Click to expand...

§922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— .......................................

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe DOES NOT reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Click to expand...


See Carnivore? SHHH! ;)

What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION.

...Orygunner...


Edited cuz I used the wrong word
 
Gunslinger

Gunslinger

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Carnivore wrote:
a bonafide gift for a person who can legally obtain a firearmis not considereda straw purchase..

Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift.

I have gifted quite a few firearms to my son and he now lives in another state, so I know you don't mean he should have left the firearms in Missouri when he moved..
Click to expand...
You cannot cross interstate lines to make such a purchase, number one, and number two there is an exception only for a parent gifting a firearm to a child. This does not apply in any other situation, however. Keep in mind intent. This is not buying for a bona fide gift. It is buying to circumvent the law. The chances of getting caught, clearly, are rather small. But the penalty if he is caught is stiff--for both parties.
 
Gunslinger

Gunslinger

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Orygunner wrote:
Gunslinger wrote:
Orygunner wrote:
Yeah, ain't that a PITA? No, they're not PREVENTING you from buying a firearm in another state, just making it more expensive (FFL transfer & shipping fees) and time consuming (have to wait for it to be shipped)

So what about transferring to family members across state lines? Do you have family up there that could purchase it for you, then privately transfer it to you, then you take it home?

Not sure of the legality of that, but if it were me, that is what I would do.

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
Stay away from that. It is the precise definition of a straw purchase and a violation of Federal Law. Both parties would be prosecutable. Pay for the transfer to a FFL in your home state.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't they have to PROVE it? If the parties involved are all otherwise law-abiding citizens, and keep their mouths shut... You can only get in trouble if you get caught ;)

Unfortunately in this country, just 'cuz something is RIGHT doesn't necessarily mean it's LEGAL. I personally would do it however I could get away with it without getting caught...

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
Yes, they would--beyond a reasonable doubt. Imo, however, that would be a piece of cake for the BATF to do based on the clear facts of the action. Chances are you wouldn't get caught, but a chain of events is very clear as to how you would if the BATF did an audit on the selling FFL and then followed up with the buyer as to the travel of the weapon. But it is clearly illegal and not worth the risk, and I advise against it.
 
L

Legba

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I'm not aware of any parent-child gift exemption to the aforementioned law. As I understand the "bequest" clause, it just refers to inheriting a gun from someone dead who wills it to the recipient.

-ljp
 
O

Orygunner

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I also strongly advise against doing anything Illegal.

<sarcasm>Because, y'know, it MUST be WRONG if there's a law against it...</sarcasm>

...I know there's some way to apply the phrase "Civil Disobedience,"but I can't think of a suave way to throw it out there...
...Orygunner...
 
P

Phssthpok

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When in doubt....go to the horses arse.....er... mouth.

ATF FORM 4473 (Firearms transfer) Page three, paragraph one:

1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party. ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a. (emphasis mine)
Click to expand...

I see no restriction to 'family member' to this.;)

In fact, several years ago my best friends sister wanted to buy her husband a Ruger super blackhawk(?) .44 mag revolver for hunting. Unfortunately she was only 20 at the time so she had to have her brother do the paperwork.

Even though he passed the revolver off to his under 21 sister the moment he got it, it was still regarded as a legal (read: not 'straw') purchase because it was a legigitmate gift to her husband.
 
D

Dom

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What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION. ...Orygunner...
Click to expand...

Article I Section 8: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"


I don't like the law, but as much as the Commerce clause has been abused I do think this law fits within the bounds of interstate commerce.
 
F

FogRider

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VAopencarry wrote:
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Click to expand...
I currently have a M91/30 loaned to my dad so he can do a little deer hunting. Not sure when he's going to be done hunting though...
 
L

Legba

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You can always make the case that all things are temporary... My pal needs to borrow a gun for target shooting for the next 50 years.

-ljp
 
O

Orygunner

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Dom wrote:
What gives the Federal Government the power to regulate the transfer of firearms again? I'm having a hard time finding that in our CONSTITUTION. ...Orygunner...
Click to expand...

Article I Section 8: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"


I don't like the law, but as much as the Commerce clause has been abused I do think this law fits within the bounds of interstate commerce.
Click to expand...

Any such power, abused or not, is overridden by the 2nd Amendment. RKBA Shall Not Be Infringed.

As I'm sure we'll all agree ;)

...Orygunner...
 
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