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Buying a gun in a different state

VAopencarry

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n fact, several years ago my best friends sister wanted to buy her husband a Ruger super blackhawk(?) .44 mag revolver for hunting. Unfortunately she was only 20 at the time so she had to have her brother do the paperwork.

Even though he passed the revolver off to his under 21 sister the moment he got it, it was still regarded as a legal (read: not 'straw') purchase because it was a legigitmate gift to her husband.

This was in fact a straw purchase. The law does not say 'eventually be gifted'. It was purchased on' behalf' of someone else(the sister), not as a gift for that person(the sister). To top it off it was purchased for a 'prohibited' person, under 21.
 

Phssthpok

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Neg.

It was purchased as 'a legitimate gift to a third party' which is all that is required under law.;)
 

VAopencarry

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Beilieve what you will but it was not legal.

The 3rd party in this case was the sister!! the brother did not buy it as a gift for her.

Also it was 100% illegal due to her age. He(brother) was buying it for her not her husband. It doesn't matter what she was going to do with it.
 

Gunslinger

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VAopencarry wrote:
Beilieve what you will but it was not legal.

The 3rd party in this case was the sister!! the brother did not buy it as a gift for her.

Also it was 100% illegal due to her age. He(brother) was buying it for her not her husband. It doesn't matter what she was going to do with it.
Absolutely correct. A straw purchase and for an underage recipient.
 

Phssthpok

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Party #1: FFL licensee
Party #2: 'Purchaser' of gift
Party #3: Recipient of gift

The recipient was not a 'prohibited' person (nor, in fact, was his sister despite her age), so how exactly does this conflict with the quote I posted earlier from the actual form 4473?

Nowhere does it say 'to be given by the purchaser as a gift' (or some variation thereof).....only that it is to BE a gift.
 

Gunslinger

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Phssthpok wrote:
When in doubt....go to the horses arse.....er... mouth.

ATF FORM 4473 (Firearms transfer) Page three, paragraph one:

1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party. ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a. (emphasis mine)

I see no restriction to 'family member' to this.;)

In fact, several years ago my best friends sister wanted to buy her husband a Ruger super blackhawk(?) .44 mag revolver for hunting. Unfortunately she was only 20 at the time so she had to have her brother do the paperwork.

Even though he passed the revolver off to his under 21 sister the moment he got it, it was still regarded as a legal (read: not 'straw') purchase because it was a legigitmate gift to her husband.

This is the form, not the law. The problem is you cannot, at the time of transfer, prove the recipient is lawfully capable of being seized of the weapon. There was another thread on this where several citations were posted by me and others. It was pretty well discussed at that time.



Under federal law, an individual must be 21 to purchase a handgun and at least 18 to purchase a longarm, they must not have a disqualifying felony conviction or, under certain circumstances, a conviction for misdemeanor domestic violence, and they must not fall into other categories defined under federal law. See, 18 U.S.C § 922.
 

VAopencarry

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Um.... her age makes her a prohibited person. Under 21 is prohibited from purchasing a handgun from a FFL.

Party 1: FFL
Party 2: brother
Party 3: prohibited sister
Party 4: giftee/husband

If party2 gave it directly to party 4 then no problem. If Party 2 gave it to Party3, no problem. Party 2 completing a 4473 for party 3, that's the problem If the FFL let this happen knowingly I hope he doesn't get busted in a future 'sting' operation.

Party 2 answered YES to being the actual buyer and all that entails, including gifting. However, party2 was not gifting it
 
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