• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

The new AWB, in all it's glory

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

GLENGLOCKER wrote:
cccook wrote:
So, what should I be doing now to stop this nonsense from being enacted?
Stop voting for the same old same old. Get involved with your local Libertarian Party.
+1 The GOP just isn't pro-gun. Anybody who votes solely based on run rights should vote libertarian, because the LP is the only pro-gun political party (aside from the dreadful anti-Constitution Party).
 

Blkwdw86

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Gladewater, Texas, USA
imported post

Relax. They can't pass ANY Assault Weapons Ban, not on the federal level. Miller v US set the precedent that weapons useful "to contribute tothe common defense" and that "has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" cannot be banned. DC v Heller upheld and solidified the prohibition against banning an entire class of weapons that can be shown to be "in common use". In Lewis v US, the Supreme Court stated that "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia'" (which, to a degree, Heller reversed); in doing so it upheld that weapons that DO havesome reasonable relationship to the preservation orefficiency of a well regulated militia are clearly protected, as consistently affirmed in Miller and Heller. All enemies, foreign and domestic, use assault weapons. Semiautomatic battle rifles such as the AR-15, AK-47, certain H&K models, to name a few; are clearly and unarguably in the interest of the efficiency of a well regulated militia, and worldwide distribution illustrates "in common use". Slick Willie's gun ban would've gone down like a sack of potatoes if anyone with a double digit IQ or better would have challenged it. They'll keep pumping out new AWB bills every year, but none can be passed because they're unconstitutional, and even if the Supreme Court becomes liberally slanted, they can't go against precedent, especially precedent affirmed throughout several cases. Don't sweat the small stuff.
 

KansasMustang

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
1,005
Location
Herington, Kansas, USA
imported post

Can't? The only word I know that sounds anything like CAN'T is the CANT when I parked my tank on a side slope and fired. They put a Cant compensator in the M1 Series tank so you didn't have to aim off to adjust.
NEVER say a politician can't do something, because they will prove you wrong.
I have heard that there's at least 20 if not more *Executive Orders* Obama intends to sign immediately after taking office, wonder what those will be? Anyone else heard this ??:cuss:
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

If Miller v US had bearing on any AWB, the Clinton one should have been struck down, and reinstatement would not be introduced. Unless you refer to a Miller v US that was more recent than 1958, or most accurately, more recent than Blkwdw86 wrote: [/b]
Relax. They can't pass ANY Assault Weapons Ban, not on the federal level. Miller v US set the precedent that weapons useful "to contribute tothe common defense" and that "has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" cannot be banned. DC v Heller upheld and solidified the prohibition against banning an entire class of weapons that can be shown to be "in common use". In Lewis v US, the Supreme Court stated that "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia'" (which, to a degree, Heller reversed); in doing so it upheld that weapons that DO havesome reasonable relationship to the preservation orefficiency of a well regulated militia are clearly protected, as consistently affirmed in Miller and Heller. All enemies, foreign and domestic, use assault weapons. Semiautomatic battle rifles such as the AR-15, AK-47, certain H&K models, to name a few; are clearly and unarguably in the interest of the efficiency of a well regulated militia, and worldwide distribution illustrates "in common use". Slick Willie's gun ban would've gone down like a sack of potatoes if anyone with a double digit IQ or better would have challenged it. They'll keep pumping out new AWB bills every year, but none can be passed because they're unconstitutional, and even if the Supreme Court becomes liberally slanted, they can't go against precedent, especially precedent affirmed throughout several cases. Don't sweat the small stuff.
 

Tomahawk

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
5,117
Location
4 hours south of HankT, ,
imported post

KansasMustang wrote:
I have heard that there's at least 20 if not more *Executive Orders* Obama intends to sign immediately after taking office, wonder what those will be? Anyone else heard this ??

You have "heard"? Where? Citation to the text of Obama's executive orders waiting to be signed, please?

And while we're on the subject of executive orders, has it occurred to you that if we are in a position where a president can just order you to turn in your guns without even getting a law passed, that this pretty much meets the definition of a dictatorship, and that means you have bigger problems than just a simple gun ban? And if this is so, can you figure out who is responsible for allowing the office of president to assume this power and why?
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

They are the Democrats. They believe in mob rule, and nothing is sacred to them. They do as they please with no respect for anything but their demands and entitlements of the week.

They will create, pass, and enforce, any law they feel like; with total impunity and zero consequence. As always.
 

opusd2

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
453
Location
Butt is in, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Just look at it this way, if those orders were to be signed and we were to turn in all forms of firearms, do you think it would happen? Consider for a moment all of the people on these forums that wouldn't, and then add all of those out there that aren't vocal about it but also very committed to their freedom.

I don't see it happening without a replay of the Nat. Guard in Ohio.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

Turning them in or not isn't really the issue.

How many will just sit around saying, "ha, I still have mine, burried in a PVC pipe and nobody knows!!"

How useful is that? Where's the freedom there?

Will anyone fight? When in the course of human events, etc, blah blah blah. You'll find few left in this nation who will actually take a stand. The current lifestyle foisted upon us, whether we want it or not, is too prevalent. And the economy set-up guarantees that we will have to live off of a Nanny State if we want to live at all, so we better not get on it's bad side.

Who will fight that? It'll be me, myself and I. Not a damn soul other than myself.
 

opusd2

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
453
Location
Butt is in, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Oh I think there will be plenty of fighters. Plenty of people who have fought for their lives and their country in places like Vietnam and who got spit on by people like a certain Jane (I had to swallow some vomit there) when they returned. Also people with degenerative diseases, and those who just plain believe in a country found on the very principles they would fight for. People like me who would righter fight and die than live a slow death under oppression.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

But those generations have passed. There hasn't been a single generation of constitutional patriots since.
 

Blkwdw86

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Gladewater, Texas, USA
imported post

Executive Orders are directives to federal agencies, not laws. The effect we feel from XOs apply to changes made in how federal agencies exercise the Orders; case in point being the XO directing the ATF to enforce 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) prohibiting frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-importable firearms to be imported into the United States, signed in '89 by Daddy Bush. Additionally, XOs establish new federalagencies, trade directives, and operational changes. To date, only two XOs have had to be overturned for overstepping the line. Obama simply cannot just whip out his pen and take away everyone's guns; he can only direct federal agencies to handle their duties differently.

And Wrightme, you are correct, Clinton's silly ban SHOULD have been overturned, but to overturn an unconstitutional law it first has to be challenged. In order for the Supreme Court to consider a challenge, theappellant has to have the necessarystanding to be heard. DC v Heller originally had six petitioners, but the SC invalidated all but Mr. Heller, who was the only one who had standing to sue for declaratory and injunctive relief. As far as I know, nobody made a challenge to Slick Willie's glorious piece of nonsense, although I'm sure many would have had standing. Not too many people were prosecuted under that idiocy in the first place.

And yes, I know Congress does whatever it pleases without the slightest regard to the rules that apply to them. Even Dubya has been busted expressing his contempt for that darned pesky Constitution; when advise that portions of the Patriot Act were in violation of the Constitution, Bush retorted vehemently “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,it’s just a goddamned piece of paper!” Lays out pretty clear the government's position on preserving our republic.

Always remember, the government can only do what we ALLOW them to do. Never underestimate the power of mass non-compliance.
 

Gordie

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
716
Location
, Nevada, USA
imported post

Blkwdw86 wrote:
Even Dubya has been busted expressing his contempt for that darned pesky Constitution; when advise that portions of the Patriot Act were in violation of the Constitution, Bush retorted vehemently “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,it’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
When was this?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

Gordie wrote:
Blkwdw86 wrote:
Even Dubya has been busted expressing his contempt for that darned pesky Constitution; when advise that portions of the Patriot Act were in violation of the Constitution, Bush retorted vehemently “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
When was this?
As much as I vehemently disapprove of Bush, I don't think this has ever been shown to be anything more than a rumor.
 

Blkwdw86

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Gladewater, Texas, USA
imported post

This purportedly took place in November of 2005, when GOP and congressional leaders were discussing certain unsavory aspects of the Patriot Act (notably the ones that "goddamned piece of paper" prohibited). Unfortunately, it wasn't in a regular session of Congress and subject to recording; the meeting took place in the Oval Office, where many conversations about how best to cement government power and subjugate the people take place unrecorded. Doug Thompson of Capitol Hill Blue, a political newspaper, reported that three people in attendance of that meeting confirmed it, but he did not reveal his sources, so your guess as to the accuracy of this is as good as mine. But with what we've seen coming out of the off-White House in recent years, how much disbelief has to be suspended? Illegal wiretapping, suspension of habeus corpus, torture; the violations of the Constitution that have come out of that viper pit clearly illustrate Georgie's contempt of the "goddamned piece of paper" the rest of us cherish and believe wholeheartedly in.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

I find it disappointing that it's such a big deal when Dubya says something like this, yet it's standard operating procedure for the entire Democratic party, and it draws no attention...
 
Top