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Thread: A civil argument with a "Obama liberal" sister on CCW

  1. #1
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    My younger sister and I went to a bar (Murphy's in SLC) late at night to "celebrate" my 30th B-day.

    I never brought a handgun. I don't own it at the moment while pending a move to upstate New York to avoid getting in trouble for a felony possession unless I obtain a possession license.

    I was "buzzed" and mentioned I will be living in NY armed after going through the hoops in a year period. I talked a little bit about my concern about the crime spots in Rochester, hence my getting a Utah resident license that will be converted to non-resident after relocation and applying for a NY license on condition of good standing. However, I did not bring up recent FBI statistics on crime (forgot where it is on the web) to "prove" my point.

    My sister seemed aghast that I would "dare" to be an armed citizen. She brought up her claim "concealed permit (??) is illegal in all of Europe" to disprove my view. Because when we entered the bar, I saw her flash a passport to the door guy (and pay membership fee for cover). I mentioned I have a passport and would love to visit France, Great Britain and Germany.

    We argued a little on gun politics while seated at the bar. I maintained control while being slightly drunk on strong beer and a shot of Capt Morgan.

    She argued I should carry pepper spray with me since I gave one to another sister who just got married prior to moving to Arizona. I said, somewhat sarcastically, that I prefer - paraphrased - "a brutal response to a dangerous [sticky] situation is the best method".

    I neglected to amend the statement that it should conform to what CFL class instructor calls "the totality of circumstance" in armed response that may or may not end up stopping the crime in progress peacefully.

    She responded with a drawing of a peace sign with the words PEACE, NOT WAR on the bill.

    I responded with a rambling statement about my political belief as an "independent libertarian at heart" and that "being an American is a priority in unconditional respect to the U.S. Constitution." I mentioned being a NRA member, although I did not add I'm also a card-carrying member of Gun Owners of America. I said to her, "if you're for gun control, join Brady."

    My sister seemed irritated that I stayed stubborn concerning my position on legitimate gun rights and self-defense. I told her "you don't know what will happen" after she made that peace/not war statement to rebuke her naivete.

    Not surprisingly, she voted Obama/Biden as a Democrat who previously supported Hillary Clinton. I would paraphrase a negative statement about the Republicans (except one whose first and last name begins with R & P) to her concerning my pessimistic attitude on current American politics here, but this isn't an appropriate forum to offend some members with strong political beliefs. Both of us are passionate about politics and both of us are equally opinionated on "hot button" issues.

    Both of us had to stop discussing gun politics because it was getting tense, so after a little changing the discussion topics we left the bar and she drove while I was slightly buzzed. We never talked during the half hour trip to home.

    To make it clear, I did not go into the bar "carry". CFL instructor warned against this. But discussing gun politics -- other than general bantering about any political issue -- in the bar may be ill-advised.

    However, my sister remains cheerfully ignorant, believing that peace and "race cohesion" will reduce the predator's inclination to commit crime against an innocent person, property, violent or otherwise.

    It amazes me the "liberal Democrat" attitude towards the original design of the Second Amendment is hostile, helped by media propaganda and public position by the Democratic Party platform. I would be a Democrat if not for the stupid, blind attitude in support of gun control.

    Why don't some Americans quit being selective and just respect the U.S. Constitution for granting individual liberties that America is blessed to have whereas other parts of the world is deprived? Some Americans should get common sense education on the history and intent of the 2nd Amendment and even state constitutions guaranteeing gun rights where wannabe gun banners live.

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    you sister is an idiot. try to convince her to move to europe and never come back

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    mrbiggles wrote:
    you sister is an idiot. try to convince her to move to europe and never come back
    Suggestion considered.

    My sister lived temporarily in China and Guatemala as a traveling university student in teaching position.

    I'm considering writing an essay on gun rights-gun control argument in Ethics & Values Philosophy course I will be taking at college next term if I can get in with "add" request.

    I made a mistake of discussing gun politics with my sister starting with my view on being a legitimately armed citizen after the move. She let me down with her "ignorant" attitude. Agree to disagree and part the way.

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    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical Liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous Left-stream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a **** by the clean end." -

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Interesting story. I would say that I have also been to Guatemala and it suprises me that a country such as that would be considered a part of her anti-gun indocrination.Many business owners had armed guards standing in and out of the stores with shotguns and other weapons for defense against theft and other crimes. There are numerous reports of Americans being taken hostage, etc. Our guide warned us not to travel alone at night, even in the towns.

    At any rate, I would only question one comment you made and that is that the constitution does not grant us our rights, it merely enumerates them, listing some of theminto a formal document that protects already pre-existing rights.

    I have encountered people like your sister before, in fact probably too many. Some people will never be able to grasp the concept of meeting force with force and the concept of peace through strength. Some people will also never be able to comprehend what a right is and how sacred they are. They believe in government permission for everything and are at peace with being told what to do how to do it.

    You probably won't be able to ever get through to these types of people. Aside from a severe lack of knowledge about firearms, these people also have a severe lack of knowledge about history, our founding, our liberty, and our system of checks and balances.

    Good luck with your sister,I fearit may take a personal criminal act by a miscreant heathen,or troops crashing through her door before she will begin to acknowledge these concepts.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    It's funny how somebody can put two very concise words next to each other and create gobbledeegoo...case in point:



    'Race'plus 'cohesion'.

    Some leftist college professor probably came up with that one and gets a warm fuzzy feeling everytime one of his indoctrinated students is heard to say it.

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    Flintlock wrote:
    Interesting story. [...]

    At any rate, I would only question one comment you made and that is that the constitution does not grant us our rights, it merely enumerates them, listing some of theminto a formal document that protects already pre-existing rights.

    You probably won't be able to ever get through to these types of people. Aside from a severe lack of knowledge about firearms, these people also have a severe lack of knowledge about history, our founding, our liberty, and our system of checks and balances.
    Thank you for being a voice of reason, Flintlock. Your statement summarizes the rampant ignorance of the population concerning the natural rights to keep and bear arms.

    Think of this way. The armed, vigilant people are called citizens. The unarmed, non-vigilant people are called subjects.

    I have a plan to visit France with my two sisters, including the one I argued with, in the summer next year, when we have enough money saved up for a one or two-week European trip.

    It is unfortunate Great Britain is officially a police state, with tight restrictions on gun rights for the residents of the state post-1997.

    It would take a book on the intent and positive benefits of 2nd Amendment to be an informed debater. I made a mistake; it cannot and should not be discussed at the bar, per se.

    I apologize for the political content in the original post. I realize Open Carry forum is not the place to discuss left, right and center politics because it may be counterproductive, annoying, and distracting.


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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    David Nelson wrote:
    It's completely legal in Utah to carry a firearm in a business which is licensed for alcoholic-beverage service according to the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification. It's also completely legal for the business owner to ask you to leave. Simple.
    Unless that business is a state entity, like the liquor store. They may not regulate the possession of firearms, just booze. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Classically Liberal has a series of articles on the failures of gun control.

    This can be your litmus test. If she reads these articles and is humbled, her liberalism might be principled. If she discounts these articles as somehow being anything but far more liberal than the pseudo-liberal left, then she is a member of that pseudo-liberal left, her politics are without principle, and she is a lost cause.

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