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where oc is illegal, cc + political T-shirt?

SouthernBoy

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protector84 wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Do keep in mind that there is nothing enumerated in the Bill of Rights to guarantee freedom of expression. That is a perversion of the concept of interpretation which is an insidious extension of the earlier 20th century.

If we, and we should, follow the dictates of the Original Intent, such a right would revert to the states and the people respectively.

Wrong. The First Amendment states that the government shall not abridge the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, to peacably assemble, etc. Expression is a form of speech. Speech is not just the words that come out of your mouth. As they say, "a picture is a thousand words." Passing laws restricting people from wearing clothing with certain words, images, etc., is an infringement on speech. As to forcing you to hide a gun if carrying in public, it is limiting your expression which is in turn limiting your speech. Carrying a firearm openly is telling criminals and other problem people to leave you alone without actually uttering the words. The government loves to try to find loop-holes in the Constitution to limit rights. For instance, "we support the right to keep and bear arms" but then they require you to have background checks, obtain permits, over-tax weapons and ammo, tell you how you can and cannot carry, where you can and cannot carry, etc. That is not freedom. Same with the First Amendment. "We support the right to freedom of speech" but then if you support or oppose certain views, you will be put on watch lists by the government, hassled by police at public demonstrations, and then they try to require licenses to have public gatherings, limit what things you can say and where you can say them, etc. If you don't think the government does this, look at public schools where children are forced to wear the same clothes as all the other kids, cannot say anything "offensive" or not "politically correct" and at the same time parents are forced to make their children attend these prisons.

You can dissect it however you want but the government continues to limit people's rights. The government needs to stay out of the private lives' of citizens. Whether I am inside my home or in a public place, as long as I am not clearly causing a disturbance to the peace, anything I do is not of the government's business whether it is packing a gun, wearing a political t-shirt, or smoking a joint. It isn't their business and it won't be their business because I won't take kindly to any government intrusion into my home should they have nothing better to do.
I do agree with much everything you have written except for the first part where you have suggested my stance regarding the First Amendment and the concept of "expression" was in error. With that one, you and I will just have to agree to disagree.
 

MichaelWDean

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A thing to remember is that documents like the Constitution do not grant rights, they (supposedly) guarantee rights. The rights to free speech, self-defense; the right to freely assemble, worship as you please, not be tyrannized, etc, are innate. You were born with them, and no one has the right to take them away, if you live a right life (i.e. do not initiate aggression and keep your word.)

I think this is very important to know, and very important to teach and pass on to others.

If you are religious, rights are God-given. If you're agnostic or atheist, rights are just in you.

Regardless, if you don't step on the toes of others, you retain all these rights, and anyone who takes them away is a tyrant.

(True self-defense, against any entity, is not stepping on the toes of others. It's pushing their pushy toes away from your toes.)

MWD
 

sean3686

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id do alot of research on this topic as declaring you are CC seems like its not CC anymore.

it would get attention of people though.
 

SouthernBoy

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MichaelWDean wrote:
A thing to remember is that documents like the Constitution do not grant rights, they (supposedly) guarantee rights. The rights to free speech, self-defense; the right to freely assemble, worship as you please, not be tyrannized, etc, are innate. You were born with them, and no one has the right to take them away, if you live a right life (i.e. do not initiate aggression and keep your word.)

I think this is very important to know, and very important to teach and pass on to others.

If you are religious, rights are God-given. If you're agnostic or atheist, rights are just in you.

Regardless, if you don't step on the toes of others, you retain all these rights, and anyone who takes them away is a tyrant.

(True self-defense, against any entity, is not stepping on the toes of others. It's pushing their pushy toes away from your toes.)

MWD
Nearly correct. The Bill of Rights does not grant or "give" rights, it recognizes rights which are inherently ours and not subject to governmental intrusion or infringement. In other words, the Bill of Rights limits the powers of government by protecting our rights, but it also does more. It specifically states that those "...powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people" (Tenth Amendment) and "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" (Ninth Amendment).

The concept of expression does not appear in the First Amendment and for good reason. It is only through interpretation that it has been ncluded in this amendment. But I'd rather trust in our Founders as having written precisely what they did for perfect reason. Had they wanted the phrase "freedom of expression" to appear in the First Amendment, you can bet it would be there for all to see. But it' not so freedom of expression must fall under the purview of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. In other words, it would be left unto the states and the people to decide how they might wish to handle this.

Maybe Ohio might like Maplethorp's "artistic" displays of female genitalia on dinner plates as freedom of [artistic??] expression, but perhaps Kentucky may find this to be not to their liking. Enter the last two Amendments in the Bill of Rights. When in doubt, trust the Founders.
 

chazzman5369

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Waterford, Michigan, USA
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Great Idea! I would rather open carry anytime to let everyone know I did indeed havemy self defense weapon at the ready. Second best would be advertising that I have aCPL and I amand will carry everywhere I am allowed.

chazzman5369:cool:
 

Dragonflydf

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Aug 2, 2009
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Phoenix, ,
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While OC is not illegal here, I thought you might like to see a couple of shirts I made up,here are a couple of iron on's that I made up to wear at our Open Carry Dinners, I also wore one at a recent gun buy back event, in which I parked in front of the event and offered to buy guns for cash, instead of a gift card. I saved 2 pistols that day.

Iamnotnormal.jpg


askmenormal.jpg
 

chazzman5369

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Great Idea! I was thinking along those lines too. Have a T shirt which readsCPL ONBOARD with a color logo of the self defense weapon of your choice.You talked me into it. I am doing just thatthis saturday at the local flea market. It's the next best thing to open carry In my opinion.
 

tat2ed_guy

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Marysville, Washington, USA
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I dont see how wearing a shirt, regardless of what it says can be illegal. I dont think that it would be a good idea to wear one with a 1911 in the area of the waist tho. I would wear one that simply stated "Legally armed Citizen".
 

Ironbar

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Jul 6, 2009
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Tigard, Oregon, USA
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texanego wrote:
suppose you lived in a state where OC was illegal (like mine, texas) but did have the opportunity to legally CC. would you CC and wear a T-shirt that obviously announced, front and back, that you had a handgun? (stop me if this idea is illegal)
for the nitpickers, suppose it simply said "I legally carry a concealed handgun." with a silhouette of a 1911 underneath.
this should bring some of the deterrence value back of OC, although you still suffer from slow draw, etc. from CC.

No. No I would not wear a shirt that obviously announced, front and back, that I had a handgun.

If your gun is covered, it's concealed, no matter the damn shirt says on it.
 
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