Do you have to give your gun to a police officer?(Legal ?)

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Ok basically this is what happened. It wasn't a horrible experience just not something I want to happen again.

Before I start this I will say the police officer was very nice the whole time as was I to him. This is also 100% my fault as I asked if he needed to see the gun.

Anyway, I got pulled over the other night for a vehicle modification that was not legal. It was just improper equipment ticket not a speeding ticket or any other crime. When The officer was walking up to the vehicle I had my windows rolled down with my hands out as did the other person in the car to make sure he could see my hands. The rear windows are fairly dark. Anyway, I then stuck my head out the window a little and told him that I just wanted to let him know that I was carrying. I was open carrying a gun in there. I just said carrying though and as he got to the window and looked in he asked if I had a permit. I told him no I was open carrying and in VA you didn't need one for that. He said he knew and that was fine. I then asked if he needed to see it and he said yes. Here is where the slight issue started. I handed it to him and he tried to unload it outside my door. He started trying to yank the slide back. Did this several times only to not have it move. I told him you have to have the safety off before the slide will go back and that he should probably also take the magazine out first. If you don't take it out it will just load another one into the chamber and being as it had 17 rounds in it that would have been a hassle. I'm not sure what he was thinking as he didn't take the safety off and kept yanking on the slide. Finally I reached down and pointed to how you take the magazine out then the safety. He finally after messing with other things and yanking on the gun got it unloaded. He then just kept opening and closing quickly the slide a few times. I didn't have a problem with that but I had a problem with how he kept yanking it trying to get it to move when it's not made to move when the safety is on. This made me afraid he was going to break it but so far I haven't seen anything broken. I haven't shot it yet since then though. I was also expecting to see the gun go off any second the way he was messing with it trying to get it unloaded. It had the safety on so it didn't go off. The person with me made the comment to me that it didn't look like he had ever shot a gun much. This was just not something I want to see happen again as if it had gone off being in a well populated parking lot would have not been a good thing and I also would not have liked it well at all had he broken something on my gun that was not exactly a cheap gun.

Now my question is in the future if they ask to see it do I have to give it to them if the reason I'm stopped is non related to the gun? I know I walked into this by asking if he needed to see it and I more than likely wont ask that again but if they tell me they need me to hand it to them which I suspect he would have had I not said that do I have to give it to them? I'd have no problem unloading it for them but after seeing that I'd rather not give it to them to do who knows what with trying to unload it.

The only other time I've been stopped with it was in one of the road check things not actually pulled over and I asked if he needed to see it and they told me no. I talked to them for a few minutes but it just never was a issue. He asked why I had it but was super nice and told me he didn't need to see it.

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Well... according to your above statement, you offered it to him first. Naturally, he's going to say 'yes'. As a gun guy myself, hell - I'd like to check out your "piece" too.

I'm also trying to imagine what you are carrying, given your description of the number of rounds and how the slide action works. The officer may not have been familiar with your particular sidearm or the function thereof (obviously). But to be fair - a police academy does not make you an amory specialist. I'm sure he's familiar with how his gun functions.... doesn't mean he knows 'em all.

You do know that in Virginia, you do not have to "claim" your sidearm when approached by LE - right? I'm sure the officer appreciated you being open about it, but don't bring it up unless you have to. Overall, I'd say your encounter was positive, based on your above statement.

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hometheaterman wrote:

Ok basically this is what happened.

Snippy snip snip snip

"I handed it to him"

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This is where you lost me. The officer seemed to have no issue with you handling your firearm in his presence? Don't get me wrong here. . .its the way I would love it to be all the time; but it sort of flies in the face of everything I've been told and have experianced. Most times I've heard of officers saying "don't touch it, we'll get it out for you" in these situations.

This account of you handling a firearm in their presence, and during the initial walk up to your vechicle would be a first for me.

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It's a Ruger SR9 for those wondering.

I did offer it to him and don't mind if he takes it as I understand that he needs to be safe however, at the same time if he doesn't know how to unload it instead of jerking around on the gun he should have handed it back to me and asked me to unload it instead of keep jerking the slide trying to get it to slide back when I had already told him at least once that you had to take the safety off.

I wouldn't say that this was super negative just that he told me he needed to unload the gun for his safety. I did ask him first if he needed it and he told me yes. I don't plan to do that again but if I do get asked next time for them to hold it do I have to let them?

I wouldn't say this was a negative experience but at the same time the way he handled it after I handed it to him wasn't very good. I know they aren't trained to know how to operate every firearm out there but if you don't know how to operate it he should have just calmed down and asked or let me shown him instead of jerking around on stuff that may or may not break. This time nothing seems to be broken that I see so I'm pretty sure it's fine but it could have easily broken something on the gun.

I also was expecting to see a round go off anytime the way he was messing with it around the trigger. I hope he knew what he was doing but it was making me cringe.

He did let me hand it to him and I pointed to him as he was jerking on the gun where the safety and magazine release were. However, other than me handing it to him which I carefully did so that he say my fingers were no where near the trigger I didn't touch it.

When have gave it back told me he was putting it in the back seat and for me to pull into a parking spot and bring it back upfront with me. He handed me the magazine upfront and set the gun in the backseat.

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Firstly, welcome aboard. I see you're pretty new here. Now for the meat of the issue.

Many people are under the impression that police are intimately knowledgeable about firearms. They just assume that since the police carry a sidearm, they know all there is to know about handguns. WELL THEY ARE NOT all intimate about arms. Some are of course, but many are not.. in fact, I would say probably less that half are firearms enthusiasts. This means they lack knowledge and understanding about weapons.

Next, if you are carrying open in your car or have a gun out on a seat or in a cup holder, it is probably a good thing to tell the officer about this since you do not want a surprise.. as in him or a partner suddenly seeing it and drawing down on you. If if is concealed and your state does not require notifying the officer, then it's your call.

The officer who stopped you clearly is not all that familiar with weapons and maybe has never encountered an armed driver before. I have to wonder about his training (or lack of it) or perhaps his sanity based on his asking you to hand him your gun. This is a very bad thing to do. He doesn't know you from Adam and he's taking that kind of a chance?

Finally, unless he was really hard on your gun, it's unlikely that he caused any damage. Remember, when a handgun fires a round there is one heck of a lot of violence going on inside the gun during this process.

Glad to have you aboard. And glad all turned out Ok with your stop.

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ArmedArmed wrote:

Well... according to your above statement, you offered it to him first. Naturally, he's going to say 'yes'. As a gun guy myself, hell - I'd like to check out your "piece" too.

I'm also trying to imagine what you are carrying, given your description of the number of rounds and how the slide action works. The officer may not have been familiar with your particular sidearm or the function thereof (obviously). But to be fair - a police academy does not make you an amory specialist. I'm sure he's familiar with how his gun functions.... doesn't mean he knows 'em all.

You do know that in Virginia, you do not have to "claim" your sidearm when approached by LE - right? I'm sure the officer appreciated you being open about it, but don't bring it up unless you have to. Overall, I'd say your encounter was positive, based on your above statement.

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Armed - you hit a home run with your statements. Every one is on the money, well said.

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I think we should always treat a gun in the vehicle as a "non-issue". By this I mean don't place your hands on your head or out the windows as this instantly raises suspicions. Just get your wallet and set it on the dash before he approaches, keep your hands visible near the top of the steering wheel, make normal movements (no fast movements) and speak nicely, calmly and in a normal tone of voice. If an officer notices the gun, it's still a "non-issue". You being calm and collected goes a long way towards keeping him calm. Acting nervously or abnormally only heightens his senses looking for something. Carrying a gun is a normal activity, so treat it as a "non-issue".

Oh, welcome Hometheaterman!

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hometheaterman wrote:

When The officer was walking up to the vehicle I had my windows rolled down with my hands out .....

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This would bother me if I was walking up to a car. When a person is being overly cooperative, it's a pretty good chance they might behiding something. You don't have to stick your hands out the window like you're doing somemoon worship dance to the Gods.

Having said the above, your actions would cause me to take the gun when offered too. And I would run the serial number to see if it is stolen or not.

I know people teach all of this friendly roadside cooperation as a possible method to get out of moving violations, Roll the windows down, turn the interior light on, stick your hands out or place them both on the steering wheel, etc.... But, I think it's all baloney.

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Sheriff wrote:

hometheaterman wrote:

When The officer was walking up to the vehicle I had my windows rolled down with my hands out .....

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This would bother me if I was walking up to a car. When a person is being overly cooperative, it's a pretty good chance they might behiding something.

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I want to add that this action would lead me to believe that the person or persons doing this had been "in the system" and had priors. The same thing applies when someone called me "Boss". It just raises my suspicions and I would deal with that person or persons much more carefully.

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Sheriff wrote:

I know people teach all of this friendly roadside cooperation as a possible method to get out of moving violations, Roll the windows down, turn the interior light on, stick your hands out or place them both on the steering wheel, etc.... But, I think it's all baloney.

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I always thought the hands on the wheel and the lights on was a good idea. I'm not about to roll the window down and stick my hands out, but I didn't think putting the light on was a bad idea. What should we do?

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If you carried on your person, and not in plain sight, a loaded pistol in VA in your car without a CCW you violated the law. Open carry in VA is just that, and in a car, it has to be open to the cop's clear vision. You're lucky the cop didn't know the law, obviously. Or clearly cut you a big break.

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We were told the whole "hand out the window" thing in our CC class in MO as well so it is not just a VA thing being taught. If I get pulled over while carrying, I will do the same thing I have done in the past - put the car in park or set the parking brake in a manual trans., foot off the brake, hands on the steering wheel, interior light on if at night time and be polite.

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buster81 wrote:

What should we do?

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You really want my opinion? Just do what normal people do. Close your ashtray so no "plain view" searches take place. Very important -> Turn on a pocket recorder if you have one with you, put it in your front shirt pocket. Watch the excitement in your rear view mirror. Look around to seewho watching you being humiliated by a traffic stop.Scratch whatever may be itching. Look for your registration and driver's license. A cop walking up to your car is no different than one walking into your living room at home. Would you put your hands up in the air in your own living room? If so, I would think you are giving up and turning yourself in for a crime.

There is no simple answer to your question. Being overly cooperative immediately sends up red flags, IMHO. Even though a totally innocent practice, the cop will assume the worst case scenario,"this guyhas something to hide."

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Sheriff wrote:

A cop walking up to your car is no different than one walking into your living room at home. Would you put your hands up in the air in your own living room? If so, I would think you are giving up and turning yourself in for a crime.

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I don't let the cops into my living room.

I can see where you're coming from. I still think the light on when it's dark is a good idea, but I have no intention of putting my hands up. I drive with my hands at 10 and 2 so that seems like a good spot to leave them.

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ProShooter wrote:

Armed - you hit a home run with your statements. Every one is on the money, well said.

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Why thank you, Sir.

My personal policy is to never bring up the gun issue during a casual LE encounter, unless they do first. Smile, be friendly, cooperate and I'll even thank them for the speeding ticket in the end if they've been friendly and respectful about it - which hasbeen my experience anyway.

If they don't ask - I don't tell.

I hadn't really given much thought to the possibility that the officer might actually ask to see the sidearm, until I started participating on this board. However, I've decided that I will temporarily relinquish the sidearmfor inspection if requested although, I willask if I may clear the weapon first,while keepingthe muzzle pointed at the passenger side floorboard (assumingI have no passenger). It's simply bad form to hand a loaded weapon to somebody.

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hometheaterman wrote:

SNIP Now my question is in the future if they ask to see it do I have to give it to them if the reason I'm stopped is non related to the gun?

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As you can see in thread so far, there are a number of points that could be addressed in the OP. Just to keep it manageable,I'll focus on twopoints.

1. To directly answer the question you asked, whether you offer the gun or not, the officer is authorized by the federal 4th Circuit Court of Appeals to temporarily seize the gun for officer safety. The opinion is US vs Baker. US vs Baker applies to certain specific circumstances which I will not go into here. You must read US vs Baker to understand its scope and breadth. http://law.emory.edu/caselaw/4ca/mar96/955287.p.html

2. Just to reinforce the earlier posts, I know of nolaw in VA that requires alawfully armedcitizento notify police of the presence oftheir firearm during a traffic stop.

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Gunslinger wrote:

If you carried on your person, and not in plain sight, a loaded pistol in VA in your car without a CCW you violated the law. Open carry in VA is just that, and in a car, it has to be open to the cop's clear vision. You're lucky the cop didn't know the law, obviously. Or clearly cut you a big break.

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Just to help Gunslinger ,I'll supply the cite: VA Code 18.2-308

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material...he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

(Read the statute. There is more to it. This just answers the gun question.)

Also, very important, notice that the statute says "about his person", not "on his person."

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Gunslinger wrote:

If you carried on your person, and not in plain sight, a loaded pistol in VA in your car without a CCW you violated the law. Open carry in VA is just that, and in a car, it has to be open to the cop's clear vision. You're lucky the cop didn't know the law, obviously. Or clearly cut you a big break.

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Well not exactly. Where the LEO is standing in relationship to where your weapon is located is not part of the equation.

If you are open carrying in a holster on your right side, it is extremely unlikely that the officer will initially see your gun; however it is open carried. It is available to common observation. Same thing in a restaurant when you are sitting strong side to the wall.

Open carry is a condition that depends on your action permitting the visibility not the position of the viewer.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

If you carried on your person, and not in plain sight, a loaded pistol in VA in your car without a CCW you violated the law. Open carry in VA is just that, and in a car, it has to be open to the cop's clear vision. You're lucky the cop didn't know the law, obviously. Or clearly cut you a big break.

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Well not exactly. Were the LEO is standing in relationship to where your weapon is located is not part of the equation.

If you are open carrying in a holster on your right side, it is extremely unlikely that the officer will initially see your gun; however it is open carried. It is available to common observation. Same thing in a restaurant when you are sitting strong side to the wall.

Open carry is a condition that depends on your action not the viewer's.

Yata hey

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Are we discussing pure law or how it might be applied by any given police officer?

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"common observation" has been discussed here many times before and I don't believe we have had a volunteer yet to test it.