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Thread: So, apparently I committed a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

  1. #1
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    I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it in another thread, but about a month and a half ago I lost my CWP. No need to go into details, suffice to say that if you are going to put valuable stuff in a backpack, closed zippers are your friends.

    Anywho, this happened on a Sunday early in November. Monday I called the Arapahoe Cty. Sheriffs Office (ACSO), and was informed that I needed to report the lost permit within three days, and I needed to report it to the officials in the county where it was lost, and bring a notarized official report back to the ACSO. So I called the Weld Cty. Sherrifs Office (WCSO), and they told me I could file a report online. I had some problems, but was able to get it done Tuesday morning (still within three days - I thought I was good to go).

    Fast forward to yesterday. It takes at least two weeks to get an official report from an online report, and time pretty much got away from me. So Monday I drive up to Greeley CO (about 1:45, not something I want to do repeatedly), stop it the WCSO to get a notarized official report. The lady that does the notarizing is on holiday, so I just got the report in hopes that would be enough. Today I took it into the ACSO to get my permit replaced. While I was filling out the lost permit report, a deputy was sitting next to me reading through the report I got from WCSO. She pointed out that today is 12/23, and the license was lost on 11/2. Well past the three day limit. I told her that I was told I only had to report it to the other office within three days. She told me no, both agencys need to know. I told her that 1) That's not what I was told and 2) I couldn't have done anything for ACSO because I couln't get an official report from WCSO for at least two weeks. She then told me that she understood the problem, but was not sure what she could do, because at the moment I had commited a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

    Fortunately, she must have got everything worked out, because she came back after about 15 minutes with my new license, and told me to not lose it again, and if I do, tell everyone immediately.

    So long story short, I was breaking the law while thinking I was following instructions that would keep me legal. It worked out, but it could have been quite a bit worse. So, CO CWP holders, if you lose your permit file a report at the county where you lost it, AND in the county that issued it, and do it right away.

    Well, that was a lot longer than I expected. Oh well, I've got nothing else going on at the moment.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up. Obviously I don't plan on losing my CHP but if it ever happens it's good to know what needs to be done, and how quickly.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Yeah, I expected a few hoops but the timeframe is what really caught me off guard. From the way she talked I could have been in some trouble, but they let it slide. That or she talked to her boss and he told her I was good, and she didn't bother to tell me. I thought about asking a few more questions, but everyone handling CWP's (they only do those Tue & Thu from 12:30 to 4:00) were obviously extremely busy, so I just let it go.

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    FogRider wrote:
    SNIP So long story short, I was breaking the law while thinking I was following instructions that would keep me legal.
    This is a good reason not to take legal advice from police.

    Police get it wrong, sideways, confused, backwards, inverted. And then you are in the position of saying, "Well, but he said..."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Glad you got it back Fog!!!
    Please tell me you made a funny face for the pic this time...or at least had OCDO written on your forehead...that would be AWESOME!!!

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    Interesting experience, and I'm glad nothing worse happened. I couldn't find anything in the statutes where you have to notify the sheriff in the county where you lost it, only the issuing sheriff:


    18-12-210. Maintenance of permit - address change - invalidity of permit. (1) WITHIN THIRTY DAYS AFTER A PERMITTEE CHANGES THE ADDRESS SPECIFIED ON HIS OR HER PERMIT OR WITHIN THREE BUSINESS DAYS AFTER HIS OR HER PERMIT IS LOST, STOLEN, OR DESTROYED, THE PERMITTEE SHALL NOTIFY THE ISSUING SHERIFF OF THE CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR PERMIT LOSS, THEFT, OR DESTRUCTION. FAILURE TO NOTIFY THE SHERIFF PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION (1) IS A CLASS 1 PETTY OFFENSE.
    Maybe this is being misinterpreted by ACSO:

    18-12-210: 2) IF A PERMIT IS LOST, STOLEN, OR DESTROYED, THE PERMIT IS AUTOMATICALLY INVALID. THE PERSON TO WHOM THE PERMIT WAS ISSUED MAY OBTAIN A DUPLICATE OR SUBSTITUTE THEREFOR UPON PAYMENT OF FIFTEEN DOLLARS TO THE ISSUING SHERIFF AND UPON SUBMISSION OF A NOTARIZED STATEMENT TO THE ISSUING SHERIFF THAT THE PERMIT HAS BEEN LOST, STOLEN, OR DESTROYED.
    Seems like all you had to do was write a statement that the permit was lost, have it notarized, and give it to ACSO with $15. Note there's no penalty here for not submitting the notarized statement.

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    Heh, I keep my CCH permit in my wallet. And if I ever lose my wallet, I can honestly say that my CCH permit is going to be among the LEAST of my concerns..


    I am glad that everything worked out alright for you.


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    Citizen wrote:
    This is a good reason not to take legal advice from police.

    Police get it wrong, sideways, confused, backwards, inverted. And then you are in the position of saying, "Well, but he said..."
    And now I know that. Seems like I've always got to learn my lessons the hard way...

    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Glad you got it back Fog!!! Please tell me you made a funny face for the pic this time...or at least had OCDO written on your forehead...that would be AWESOME!!!
    Nope, didn't even get my picture taken. Apparently they keep it on file, because she walked out with the actual permit with the photo. I was expecting another couple week wait with possibly a temp permit, like they do with a DL.

    Dom wrote:
    Seems like all you had to do was write a statement that the permit was lost, have it notarized, and give it to ACSO with $15. Note there's no penalty here for not submitting the notarized statement.
    I think that's probably right. When I went in today I paid and filled out a lost permit form. While they took the official report, the form I filled out seemed to be the one they really wanted, and that's what they notarized. Like I said, I would have liked to ask more questions, but they all seemed to be pretty swamped and cranky. When cops start saying stuff like "misdemeanor", and then drop it, I try not to push my luck.

    BRobb19 wrote:
    Heh, I keep my CCH permit in my wallet. And if I ever lose my wallet, I can honestly say that my CCH permit is going to be among the LEAST of my concerns.. I am glad that everything worked out alright for you.
    In the grand scheme of things the permit was less important to me than the drivers license, motorcycle license, insurance cards, truck/moto registration, credit/debit cards, hunting licenses, business cards, range membership cards, various store discount cards, and a few miscellaneous other items. However, legally none of those will get me in as much trouble, or have such a small time window to get them taken care of.

    One more important thing to mention that I must have glossed over when I fist got the permit: without that card on your person, you are not permitted to carry concealed. It's not like a DL or insurance where you can prove at a later time that you have one, if you lose it you don't have a CWP until it's replaced. For over a month I have been avoiding Denver because I couldn't legally carry there.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    FogRider wrote:
    She then told me ... I had commited a Class 1 Misdemeanor.
    CRS 18-12-204(1) Within thirty days after a permittee changes the address specified on his or her permit or within three business days after his or her permit is lost, stolen, or destroyed, the permittee shall notify the issuing sheriff of the change of address or permit loss, theft, or destruction. Failure to notify the sheriff pursuant to this subsection (1) is a class 1 petty offense.

    As Dom pointed out, issuing sheriff only. Also, there is a difference between a class 1 petty offense and a class 1 misdemeanor.

    18-1.3-503. Petty offenses classified - penalties.(1) A violation of a statute of this state is a "petty offense" if specifically classified as a class 1 or class 2 petty offense. The penalty for commission of a class 1 petty offense, upon conviction, is a fine of not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisonment for not more than six months other than in state correctional facilities, or both. The penalty for commission of a class 2 petty offense is a fine specified in the section defining the offense. The penalty assessment procedure of section 16-2-201, C.R.S., is available for the payment of fines in class 2 petty offense cases.

    18-1.3-501. Misdemeanors classified - penalties.
    (1) (a) Misdemeanors are divided into three classes which are distinguished from one another by the following penalties which are authorized upon conviction except as provided in subsection (1.5) of this section:

    Class Minimum Sentence Maximum Sentence

    1 Six months imprisonment, or five Eighteen months imprisonment,
    hundred dollars fine, or both or five thousand dollars fine, or both


    2 Three months imprisonment, or two Twelve months imprisonment,
    hundred fifty dollars fine, or both or one thousand dollars fine, or both


    3 Fifty dollars fine Six months imprisonment, or seven
    hundred fifty dollars fine, or both

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    FogRider wrote:
    One more important thing to mention that I must have glossed over when I fist got the permit: without that card on your person, you are not permitted to carry concealed. It's not like a DL or insurance where you can prove at a later time that you have one, if you lose it you don't have a CWP until it's replaced.
    You are required to have the permit while carrying, true. But if you are caught without it but can produce it later, you can recover.

    18-12-204(2)(a) A permittee, in compliance with the terms of a permit, may carry a concealed handgun as allowed by state law. The permittee shall carry the permit, together with valid photo identification, at all times during which the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun and shall produce both documents upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Failure to produce a permit upon demand by a law enforcement officer raises a rebuttable presumption that the person does not have a permit. Failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand as required in this subsection (2) is a class 1 petty offense. A charge of failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand pursuant to this subsection (2) shall be dismissed by the court if, at or before the permittee's scheduled court appearance, the permittee exhibits to the court a valid permit and valid photo identification, both of which were issued to the permittee prior to the date on which the permittee was charged with failure to carry and produce a permit and valid photo identification upon demand.

    Less than a year after I got my permit, my name and the expiration date wore off and were on the verge of disappearing. I took that permit back to Arapahoe County and got a new one, which they recommended I laminate. (Even though I didn't loseit, I had to pay the replacement fee.)

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    I updated the address on my JeffCo permit way past the regulatory time frame. By months, because its hard to find time Tuesday or Thursday from 9am-4pm when you do 30 hours of work and 30 hours of school a week. I was actually pretty nervous going in, expecting to have to prove where I live now and for how long... running the risk of legal recourse. Nope. I just had the online form I filled out for change of address, had it notarized free at my bank, and there was no questions asked. It took all of 7 minutes of waiting in the Sheriff's Office lobby. They used my old photo as well, so I got all sexed up for nothing. Seems kind of futile if the law states time frames and can't enforce them unless they luck out with special circumstances like FogRider had.

    AC

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    Sheesh, for the amount of money they rob from ya, you'd think they could afford a laminator. Douglas Co lammies it for you.

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    The more I read here, the more I come to find the folks I talked to were misinformed.

    Ernie:

    Mine is laminated. Feels just like my DL. I was surprised that they printed them right there.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Sheesh, for the amount of money they rob from ya, you'd think they could afford a laminator. Douglas Co lammies it for you.
    We get a nice, solid plastic card here in El Paso County. Looks like a credit card.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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