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Thread: L&I and guns

  1. #1
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am self employed and all the paper work and conversations say that it isoutright illegal (according L&I) for me to even possess a firearm at work, and open carry forget about it. I am a contractor specializing in any sort of woodwork framing , trim, decks...etc. So usually I am out in the open. Does anybody know if preemption covers this in anyway or is this a totally seperate issue? I have many arguments with L&I about many different subjects, I just want to be on correct footing before taking this one on. I know I carred several yrs. ago on a job for fear of the deer and yes I said deer. They can get nasty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Which section of the WAC?

  3. #3
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    well so far I can't find a wac so maybe its not a rule but it is on their accident prevention form. So maybe I should change that form and erase that part.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Do you have an e-version of that form you can post or link to? I don't see how they could write you a citation for something that's not in their section of the WAC.

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Basics/...eRuleGuide.pdf

    heres adobe one...again now that I'm looking at it I think I can just erase it....I think they were trying to slide firearms in there on the sly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Looks like a recommendation for your safety program, in an example document, not a requirement.

    God, reading that L&I document brings this to mind:

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    You may follow this outline, however it is provided as an example only.

    You must tailor your own Accident Prevention Program
    .

    That says it all

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I tried calling the office here in Bellingham and was put on hold for 1/2 hr. but I had to do something, maybe I'll stop by and try to get an official statement. I know I was told by L&I officers before that it was illegal for me too, but then we see how often so called authorities are mistaken about the laws. I know a lot of contractors that carry we run into unsavory people out here sometimes. But from the research so far it looks like a form that I can customize for my job sites.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ok, I went into L&I and asked them if what illegal to carry firearms on jobsites as a contractor,,, the lady behind the counter at first said "oh yes" so I asked if I can see the WAC on that or any other document that stated that other than the Accident Prevention form wich you print and adust for your own jobs. I told her that I couldnt find wac against carrying on their online website. She stated that there probably wasn't one then. So I asked "so it is legal then?" She told me she would get somebody from the back who could answer my questions better. I am going to interject here and say that everybody at the office was nothing but professional and polite the whole time. The gentleman from the back who I have seen as an inspection officer before on jobs, dont know if he still is an inspector, came out and we talked about all the different scenarios of why firearms would be on the job, in a truck rifle or pistol or on person. He came to the conclusion that no there is no wac on it but contractors both sub and general would have to respect the rights of the property owner on wether they would allow them on their privateproperty or not. Wich I agreed with wholeheartedly. Then we discussed different areas where we could shoot , he being a gun owner and second ammendment supporter as well. Now only time will tell wether it will be a problem with other L&I personal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I don't think the "lady behind the desk" was very professional giving answers off the cuff. As for the property owners, they of course have a right to ask you to leave, but you have not duty to inform them that you have it either. (No, I'm not a lawyer, and speaking from my opinion.)

    Reading that from pissed me off, and it makes me realize just how it happens that my employer has that rule, which we objected and lost. It is just a template, and easier for the companies to follow rather than rewrite, or worse, justify in court why the rewrote it if something should go wrong. Loss of rights through bureaucracy recommendations, jeeze, a new low!!!





  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Rainman wrote:
    I don't think the "lady behind the desk" was very professional giving answers off the cuff. As for the property owners, they of course have a right to ask you to leave, but you have not duty to inform them that you have it either. (No, I'm not a lawyer, and speaking from my opinion.)

    Reading that from pissed me off, and it makes me realize just how it happens that my employer has that rule, which we objected and lost. It is just a template, and easier for the companies to follow rather than rewrite, or worse, justify in court why the rewrote it if something should go wrong. Loss of rights through bureaucracy recommendations, jeeze, a new low!!!



    I didn't mean she was correct in her statement, she wasn't an L&I officer and she quickly got someone who could answer my questions with authority, but she was professional in the sense that she wasn't combative and found someone with more knowledge than her to discuss the subject with me. I agree with you that you don't have the duty to inform anybody you are armed, and thats a very good point, thanks for bringing that up. Alsoyou are correct it is just a template and I'll be removing the wording from mine that bans firearms on my jobsites, I welcome my employees to carry firearms, I'll have the safest jobsite in the state....lol.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ok something has been bothering me since I talked to the L&I "officer" we discussing open carry and he told me that it was illegal to carry into there offices, I didn't contradict him because I wasn't clear on the law on that part but told him I could carry to the court houses and they would have to check my weapon. I used the example that what if I didn't own a car to keep my weapon in.I looked and I am not 100% sure but it looks like they can't stop me from carrying in that building. The same building houses some other state government offices, I don't think this should have a bearing on this though. I was thinking about bringing the pamphlet to him since he said he was a supporter of 2a, and was thinking about open carrying to do this. Should I recordit video or audio?Would this be advisable or am I in the wrong or looking for trouble? If someone could help clarify this for me I would appreciate it. Oh this is the Bellingham L&I offices.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Ok something has been bothering me since I talked to the L&I "officer" we discussing open carry and he told me that it was illegal to carry into there offices, I didn't contradict him because I wasn't clear on the law on that part but told him I could carry to the court houses and they would have to check my weapon. I used the example that what if I didn't own a car to keep my weapon in.I looked and I am not 100% sure but it looks like they can't stop me from carrying in that building. The same building houses some other state government offices, I don't think this should have a bearing on this though. I was thinking about bringing the pamphlet to him since he said he was a supporter of 2a, and was thinking about open carrying to do this. Should I recordit video or audio?Would this be advisable or am I in the wrong or looking for trouble? If someone could help clarify this for me I would appreciate it. Oh this is the Bellingham L&I offices.
    They cannot restrict you from carrying in their office as it does not fall under any restricted place in the RCW's. I would let him know that you found out it is legal for you to carry there and give him a pamphlet. I would not record it unless he agrees, which I do not see him doing because he will be acting under his official capacity.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Would it be advisable to OC when I go give the pamphlet or would that just be flaunting it in his face? He said he supports 2a but Obama says the same thing it doesn't always mean the same thing to various mind sets.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Would it be advisable to OC when I go give the pamphlet or would that just be flaunting it in his face? He said he supports 2a but Obama says the same thing it doesn't always mean the same thing to various mind sets.
    I would warm the waters up first. While it is lawful to OC in there it may not be prudent until he fully understands the RCW's and how they are applied to his office.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Right on thanks, that was my first instinct, thats what I will do then. If someone got all worked up because they saw the gun first I wouldn't be able to get the pamphlet out in a business like manner. I'm going to go there later today or tomorrow. Especially now that I figured out how to print on both sides of the paper to make the pamphlets correctly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ok I finally went in there to bring a pamphlet to the fellow I talked to and to let him know that it wasn't illegal to open carry pistols in there and he wasn't there.

    So another fellow who I have dealt with in the past and is always freindly asked if I could leave him a message. I told him I was there about gun rights and since the one guy said he was pro 2nd ammendment he would be interested in the pamphlet on open carry. The guy today ( I am summarizing here) said he realized that it was legal but not in state buildings. I told him not necessarily so and said that the state only made it illegal in relatively few places such as courtrooms, schools and places that serve alcohol where children under 21 are not allowed. He looked surprised and said really he was a cpl holder and didn't know that....he took the brochure I asked if he wanted more I have some in the car he said no he will photo copy and look at it here on our website.

    So next time I have businessat L&I ( being self employed I do go there every so often) I feel comfortable about carrying. He was very professional freindly and understanding on our view points of open carry wich we talked about. Especially my personal view point that you will more likely ward off a potential attacker if they see you carrying again, rather than hiding it and maybe then having more likely hood of having to use it. I agreed that there are both pro's to both side of the argument and situations that I would rather conceal.

    It was just good to know that so far both of the state workers I dealt with here in Bellingham L&I office were reasonable and seem willing to comply with state law and both pro 2nd ammendment rights.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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