Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: assault rifle

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Shelton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    12

    Post imported post

    Hello everyone,

    I was talking to a friend today and he asked about the ballistics on the 7.62x39 and x54r rounds. He asked if the rounds would tumble. Seeing as I had no clue I thought I would come on here and inquire if anyone knows the answer.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington, USA
    Posts
    239

    Post imported post

    VoiceinShelton wrote:
    Hello everyone,

    I was talking to a friend today and he asked about the ballistics on the 7.62x39 and x54r rounds. He asked if the rounds would tumble. Seeing as I had no clue I thought I would come on here and inquire if anyone knows the answer.

    Thanks.
    you might want to post your question on a different forum. this ones about open carry. plus ak-47s are illegal to own in this country cuz their too communist.

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.

    As far as the ballistics, the rounds don't "tumble", that would make them inaccurate as heck. To see ballistics data, you might want to google "7.62x39 ballistics" and "7.62x54r ballistics". They are roughly equal to a .30-30 and .308 FWIW.

  4. #4
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291

    Post imported post

    Wound ballistics by the Firearms Tactical Institute

    Some good reading material: http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

    7.62 x 39mm Russian FMJ (AK-47/SKS)





  5. #5
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    714

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    As far as the ballistics, the rounds don't "tumble", that would make them inaccurate as heck.
    I think he might have been asking if they tumble on impact, like 5.56x45 or 5.7x28 rounds do.

  6. #6
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    diesel556 wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    As far as the ballistics, the rounds don't "tumble", that would make them inaccurate as heck.
    I think he might have been asking if they tumble on impact, like 5.56x45 or 5.7x28 rounds do.
    Which can be the case with any rifle-caliber bullet due to the fact that there is more mass in the back of the bullet than the front, causing the back to want to continue at the same speed when the tip begins to slow. Does this normally happen with most bullets? No, but it can happen. Longer bullets will tend to do this over short, stubby bullets, in general.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    305

    Post imported post

    He may also have been referring to the AK74 which has that myth with the 5.45x39 bullet.



  8. #8
    Regular Member thebastidge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd, Vancouver Washington, USA
    Posts
    313

    Post imported post

    "Longer bullets will tend to do this over short, stubby bullets, in general."

    Right, which is known as precession; basically, the axis with the greatest potential momentum tends to be the one where rotation is most stable. In an absence of resistance from air, a cylinder tends to rotate around the middle point, rather than perpendicular to its long axis.

    How a bullet will travel once it hits an object of varying density is difficult to predict, particularly if the object is dense enough to cause deformation of the bullet (which also varies as the material hardness of the bullet material, i.e. lead vs copper jacketed). It also has a great amount to do with the energy of the bullet at the time it strikes; is it mostly expended due to long range, what is the mass, speed, and cross section (important because it changes theforce necessary to penetrate)of the bullet?

    Another factor is the rifling of the barrel. Higher twist ratio produces higher rotational velocity, which is good for improving the stability of the bullet, at least right up to the point wherespeed and rotation cause the bullet to disintegrate as it leaves the barrel because it creates more "centrifugal force" than the structure of the bullet can handle.

    Length of the barrel changes the time-under-acceleration of the bullet. So generally, a longer barrel means more FPS before it goes ballistic and starts to slow down. Faster bullet speeds tend to have flatter trajectories. Slower bullet speeds tend to be more affected by air movement and density, for the same mass and cross section (more speed/mass equals greater total energy).

    At extreme long range, pretty much any bullet will tumble a certain amount. Mostly, you would have to shoot fairly high in the air for a bullet to get to this state before it grounded.


    Be prepared. Be very prepared.

    http://swwsurplus.com/ *** 2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98661 *** 360.314.6687
    http://www.facebook.com/SouthWestWashingtonSurplus *** https://twitter.com/SWWSurplus

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Elma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    54

    Post imported post

    I have not hunted with 7.62X54, but this year a friend got a buck with a rifle in 7.62X39. The bulled was a winchester 120 grain soft point, which we recovered from the carcass.

    No it did not tumble. I had expanded niceley and caused a great deal of damage, killing the animal very quickly (knowck it down, it got up and ran ~15 yards before dropping dead right there).

    So to sum up, that can be said from this is that a hunting 120 grain soft nosed bullet from an 18 inch barrel did not tumble on a medium sized game animal.

    Hope that helps, but at least its based on facts and not another magazine article

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Washington, USA
    Posts
    40

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.

    +1That always gets under my skin. Our state doesn't trust us to run class 3 arms.

    Same with how the term"Militia" has been demonized. All of us are the Militia.

    Sorry for the thread drift . . . I've never taken an animal with 7.62X39. I've heard of it done and it should be effective at under 100yds.I'd be a little nervous using one at any greater distance.

    Slugger


  11. #11
    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Spokane / Pullman, Washington, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
    I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

    SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769

    Post imported post

    Being that one of the reasons we possess the semi auto firearms is to repel any assault,...........I refer to them as ANTI ASSAULT firearms.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,037

    Post imported post

    That was great! I've never heard that one.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Battle Ground, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    While we are on the subject of AK's...

    I have a chance to buy a POSP 6x24V scope. Supposedly works, just needs a new battery. I traded in my AK a few years ago (dumb, I know, but I needed something I could afford to shoot)

    I'm thinking to buy it anyway for trading stock if nothing else, or to resell. Or even buy a mount to put it on a Mosin Nagant.

    Is 30 bucks a decent deal?

    tnx,

    Dan

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Elma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    54

    Post imported post

    Oh hell, 30 bucks is robbery for a POSP, if you dont buy it please PM me where to go or who to talk to!

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington, USA
    Posts
    239

    Post imported post

    Shy_Panda wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
    I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

    SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.

    Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanianwasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.


  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    160

    Post imported post

    PolskiG wrote:
    Shy_Panda wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
    I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

    SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.

    Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanianwasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
    Kind of like all M4/M16 semi-clones being labeled as "ARs"? When AR stands for ARmalite, not assault rifle? I'm sure if you told 90% of the folks on "AR15.com" that their rifles are not ARs (Olympic arms, DPMS, etc.) they'd want to kick your ass in light of their brand-name ignorance...Funny thought though.

  18. #18
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    dt wrote:
    While we are on the subject of AK's...

    I have a chance to buy a POSP 6x24V scope. Supposedly works, just needs a new battery. I traded in my AK a few years ago (dumb, I know, but I needed something I could afford to shoot)

    I'm thinking to buy it anyway for trading stock if nothing else, or to resell. Or even buy a mount to put it on a Mosin Nagant.

    Is 30 bucks a decent deal?

    tnx,

    Dan
    Heck ya that's a deal!

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    bluer1 wrote:
    PolskiG wrote:
    Shy_Panda wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.¬*

    Also I hate the term assault rifle.¬* That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability.¬* Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
    I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner.¬* I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements.¬* Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.¬*

    SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not.¬* I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.
    ¬*

    Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanian¬*wasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
    Kind of like all M4/M16 semi-clones being labeled as "ARs"? When AR stands for ARmalite, not assault rifle? I'm sure if you told 90% of the folks on "AR15.com" that their rifles are not ARs (Olympic arms, DPMS, etc.) they'd want to kick your ass in light of their brand-name ignorance...Funny thought though.
    AR refers to the model number, as in "AR-15". The fact that "AR" was an abbreviation for "ArmaLite" does not nullify this fact.

    Unless their guns are M4s or M-16s, they probably are ARs.

    I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769

    Post imported post

    I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911

    If that is what you are packing, then it is a 1911-a1 PATTERN.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911

    If that is what you are packing, then it is a 1911-a1 PATTERN.
    Not really. Mine has a flat backstrap. :P

    And what's your point? Bushmaster doesn't make AR-15 "PATTERN" guns? :quirky

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    160

    Post imported post

    marshaul wrote:
    bluer1 wrote:
    PolskiG wrote:
    Shy_Panda wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

    Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
    I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

    SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.

    Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanianwasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
    Kind of like all M4/M16 semi-clones being labeled as "ARs"? When AR stands for ARmalite, not assault rifle? I'm sure if you told 90% of the folks on "AR15.com" that their rifles are not ARs (Olympic arms, DPMS, etc.) they'd want to kick your ass in light of their brand-name ignorance...Funny thought though.
    AR refers to the model number, as in "AR-15". The fact that "AR" was an abbreviation for "ArmaLite" does not nullify this fact.

    Unless their guns are M4s or M-16s, they probably are ARs.

    I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911.
    Not all clones are ARmalite, therefore not "AR15s" as in DPMS "A15" or Remington "R15". The AR15 designation was given to ARMALITE just as the BAR was given to BROWNING, there is nothing that can change that. Look at every other manufacturer, they ARE NOT AR15s they are other nomenclatures just as "AR15" is an ARmalite BRAND NAME. Any other M4/M16 clone that brands itself an "AR15" misrepresents itself due to nomenclature of machining. Trust me, ex-US Army armorer/13F.

    That's like saying a Ford is a Chevy because they were made in america and have the same HP.


  23. #23
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    714

    Post imported post

    bluer1 wrote:
    That's like saying a Ford is a Chevy because they were made in america and have the same HP.
    *scratches head*

    Wouldn't it be more like calling all tissue paper Kleenex? Or do you correct people when they do that too? :P

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    160

    Post imported post

    diesel556 wrote:
    bluer1 wrote:
    That's like saying a Ford is a Chevy because they were made in america and have the same HP.
    *scratches head*

    Wouldn't it be more like calling all tissue paper Kleenex? Or do you correct people when they do that too? :P
    No, my original point was AR not standing for "Assault rifle" :celebrate

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    Yeah, but nobody calls their guns "ARs" because they think it means "assault rifle".

    Assault rifles are select-fire.

    People call their guns "ARs" because they are ArmaLite-15 pattern guns.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •