• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

assault rifle

VoiceinShelton

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Shelton, Washington, USA
imported post

Hello everyone,

I was talking to a friend today and he asked about the ballistics on the 7.62x39 and x54r rounds. He asked if the rounds would tumble. Seeing as I had no clue I thought I would come on here and inquire if anyone knows the answer.

Thanks.
 

PolskiG

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
239
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
imported post

VoiceinShelton wrote:
Hello everyone,

I was talking to a friend today and he asked about the ballistics on the 7.62x39 and x54r rounds. He asked if the rounds would tumble. Seeing as I had no clue I thought I would come on here and inquire if anyone knows the answer.

Thanks.
you might want to post your question on a different forum. this ones about open carry. plus ak-47s are illegal to own in this country cuz their too communist.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.

As far as the ballistics, the rounds don't "tumble", that would make them inaccurate as heck. To see ballistics data, you might want to google "7.62x39 ballistics" and "7.62x54r ballistics". They are roughly equal to a .30-30 and .308 FWIW.
 

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

diesel556 wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
As far as the ballistics, the rounds don't "tumble", that would make them inaccurate as heck.
I think he might have been asking if they tumble on impact, like 5.56x45 or 5.7x28 rounds do.
Which can be the case with any rifle-caliber bullet due to the fact that there is more mass in the back of the bullet than the front, causing the back to want to continue at the same speed when the tip begins to slow. Does this normally happen with most bullets? No, but it can happen. Longer bullets will tend to do this over short, stubby bullets, in general.
 

thebastidge

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
313
Location
2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd, Vancouver Washington, US
imported post

"Longer bullets will tend to do this over short, stubby bullets, in general."

Right, which is known as precession; basically, the axis with the greatest potential momentum tends to be the one where rotation is most stable. In an absence of resistance from air, a cylinder tends to rotate around the middle point, rather than perpendicular to its long axis.

How a bullet will travel once it hits an object of varying density is difficult to predict, particularly if the object is dense enough to cause deformation of the bullet (which also varies as the material hardness of the bullet material, i.e. lead vs copper jacketed). It also has a great amount to do with the energy of the bullet at the time it strikes; is it mostly expended due to long range, what is the mass, speed, and cross section (important because it changes theforce necessary to penetrate)of the bullet?

Another factor is the rifling of the barrel. Higher twist ratio produces higher rotational velocity, which is good for improving the stability of the bullet, at least right up to the point wherespeed and rotation cause the bullet to disintegrate as it leaves the barrel because it creates more "centrifugal force" than the structure of the bullet can handle.

Length of the barrel changes the time-under-acceleration of the bullet. So generally, a longer barrel means more FPS before it goes ballistic and starts to slow down. Faster bullet speeds tend to have flatter trajectories. Slower bullet speeds tend to be more affected by air movement and density, for the same mass and cross section (more speed/mass equals greater total energy).

At extreme long range, pretty much any bullet will tumble a certain amount. Mostly, you would have to shoot fairly high in the air for a bullet to get to this state before it grounded.
 

Vern357

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
54
Location
Elma, Washington, USA
imported post

I have not hunted with 7.62X54, but this year a friend got a buck with a rifle in 7.62X39. The bulled was a winchester 120 grain soft point, which we recovered from the carcass.

No it did not tumble. I had expanded niceley and caused a great deal of damage, killing the animal very quickly (knowck it down, it got up and ran ~15 yards before dropping dead right there).

So to sum up, that can be said from this is that a hunting 120 grain soft nosed bullet from an 18 inch barrel did not tumble on a medium sized game animal.

Hope that helps, but at least its based on facts and not another magazine article :)
 

Slugger

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Monroe, Washington, USA
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.


+1That always gets under my skin. Our state doesn't trust us to run class 3 arms.

Same with how the term"Militia" has been demonized. All of us are the Militia.

Sorry for the thread drift . . . I've never taken an animal with 7.62X39. I've heard of it done and it should be effective at under 100yds.I'd be a little nervous using one at any greater distance.

Slugger
 

Shy_Panda

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
336
Location
Spokane / Pullman, Washington, USA
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
imported post

Being that one of the reasons we possess the semi auto firearms is to repel any assault,...........I refer to them as ANTI ASSAULT firearms.
 

dt

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
78
Location
Battle Ground, Washington, USA
imported post

While we are on the subject of AK's...

I have a chance to buy a POSP 6x24V scope. Supposedly works, just needs a new battery. I traded in my AK a few years ago (dumb, I know, but I needed something I could afford to shoot)

I'm thinking to buy it anyway for trading stock if nothing else, or to resell. Or even buy a mount to put it on a Mosin Nagant.

Is 30 bucks a decent deal?

tnx,

Dan
 

PolskiG

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
239
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
imported post

Shy_Panda wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.


Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanianwasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
 

bluer1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
160
Location
, ,
imported post

PolskiG wrote:
Shy_Panda wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong.

Also I hate the term assault rifle. That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability. Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner. I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements. Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format.

SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not. I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.


Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanianwasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
Kind of like all M4/M16 semi-clones being labeled as "ARs"? When AR stands for ARmalite, not assault rifle? I'm sure if you told 90% of the folks on "AR15.com" that their rifles are not ARs (Olympic arms, DPMS, etc.) they'd want to kick your ass in light of their brand-name ignorance...Funny thought though.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

dt wrote:
While we are on the subject of AK's...

I have a chance to buy a POSP 6x24V scope. Supposedly works, just needs a new battery. I traded in my AK a few years ago (dumb, I know, but I needed something I could afford to shoot)

I'm thinking to buy it anyway for trading stock if nothing else, or to resell. Or even buy a mount to put it on a Mosin Nagant.

Is 30 bucks a decent deal?

tnx,

Dan
Heck ya that's a deal!
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

bluer1 wrote:
PolskiG wrote:
Shy_Panda wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
Umm there is no law against owning semi auto AK's that meet federal law regarding US parts count... so the blanket statement of "AK's are illegal" is wrong. 

Also I hate the term assault rifle.  That only applies to a narrow class of weapons with full auto or burst capability.  Otherwise a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle, and is a term the antis like to use to generate hysteria.
I sort of think that PolskiG was pretty much trying to say the same thing only in a sarcastic manner.  I can only assume that he was reffering to the TRUE AK-47 assault rifles which unless I am mistaken, none of us here can own due to the class 3 requirements.  Perhaps he would have been better off refferring to something like a Wasser 10 which as I am sure you are aware a variant of the AK in semi-auto format. 

SV, I am on the same page with you though I dislike it when all AK variants are labeled not only as AK's, but more importantly as assault rifles, because the fact of the matter isas you correctly stated that they are not.  I hope I am right that he was trying to be sarcastic because if not I just made an arse out of myself... again.
 

Yes, just being sarcastic. My first rifle was a Romanian wasser-10, it was really cheap looking, I got splinters on my face from the stock, functioned great though. Sold it a while back.
Kind of like all M4/M16 semi-clones being labeled as "ARs"? When AR stands for ARmalite, not assault rifle? I'm sure if you told 90% of the folks on "AR15.com" that their rifles are not ARs (Olympic arms, DPMS, etc.) they'd want to kick your ass in light of their brand-name ignorance...Funny thought though.
AR refers to the model number, as in "AR-15". The fact that "AR" was an abbreviation for "ArmaLite" does not nullify this fact.

Unless their guns are M4s or M-16s, they probably are ARs.

I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911. ;)
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
imported post

I have a 1911 on my hip, but it wasn't made in 1911

If that is what you are packing, then it is a 1911-a1 PATTERN.
 
Top