U.S. Military Preparing for Domestic Disturbances

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Francis Marion wrote:

Gen Tommy Franks did not state any desire for the abolition of our Constitution, he warned against it. As testament to his words, just look at what happened in New Orleans; Constitutional rights were abandoned.

As for the theme of the original article, the military does train for domestic disturbances and has frequently had to deal with them but never on our own soil - with the exception of the National Guard - so, why would they not train for it especially while in the middle of two domestic conflicts?

I have seen these alarmist allegations appear many times and each of them fail to recognize one truth, that the military is composed of individuals that believe in the Constitution are not not mindless robots.

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I would tend to agree. Most of the people I serve with would sooner turn in their uniforms than be part of something, (official or not) that discards the Constitution. My "boss" may be the presiding president, but only so long as he follows and upholds the Constitution. I think the mass majority of men and woman who are serving in uniform would agree.

My job is to protect and defend the citizens of the United States, not to carry out the personal whims of an elected official. Elected officials come and go, the Constitution and its amendments will outlive us all if I have anything to say about it.

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Combat Arms 29 Palms Survey

http://www.ronpaulforum.com/showthread.php?t=205103

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/419.html

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Combat Arms 29 Palms Survey

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And what was the outcome? I didn't see any survey results.

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I do hope that this is not the first time that you have seen mention of this survey. I do not recall any mention of the results. That the survey was taken is disturbing enough. Statistics alone require some disturbing results. Correlation not being cause, paramilitarization of police has become more outrageous since 1994.

The action of the OP suggests internal support.

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From that survey:

The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.

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Testing the waters, huh? I hope they received a resounding NO from all who took that survey. God help the poor boy that answered yes if/when that day comes.

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My gloomy worst-case assessment:

I would like to think that our armed force servicemen are all committed to defending our rights, but even those who are define that defense within the scope of what information and indoctrination they are provided from above.

All that is needed to get American troops to engage in operations which violate citizens' rights is to convince them that these citizens are lawless rebels who represent a threat to peace, law, and order under the Constitution.

That's easy. A few propaganda films of people throwing rocks or spitting on soldiers or burning flags is all it would take to get a 19-year-old flag-waving graduate of public school to do what he's told and kick in some doors.

Of course when it happens, it won't be that fast. There will be a long lead-in time period in which both the military and the public are conditioned to accept the use of military forces for domestic purposes, to accept seeing soldiers doing roadblocks and DUI checkpoints, to seeing them in airports and train stations, etc. An accompanying re-write of public school propaganda will help to ensure that tomorrow's 19-year-old never questions the use of troops in such situations.

By the time the order is given for troops to kick in doors and look for guns, they will have already been doing so looking for drugs for years, so it will not seem to out of the ordinary for the soldiers or the public.

Of course, all of this isn't really necessary; at the rate with which we are militarizing our police forces we really don't need to use our army domestically, anyway.

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I hate to say it, but you're right Tomahawk. When that California town got overtaken by illegals and they raised the Mexican flag and took ours down, I was chomping at the bit to go settle the score. You have some videos of people burning the flag, or the first time someone shoots at a soldier, for whatever reason, and logic goes out the window and training and emotion kicks in.

It's a very dangerous situation to have our troops on our soil. Most people are sheep and will just accept whatever the government says is best.

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Task Force 16 wrote:

This has been reported before, but the last paragraph of this is worrisom.

snip:

And Gen. Tommy Franks, who led the U.S. military operations to liberate Iraq, said in a 2003 interview that if the U.S. is attacked with a weapon of mass destruction, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

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Feh. The Constitution was discarded in 1861, buried in 1913, and its grave thoroughly soaked with urine in 1933.

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I worry a lot more about Private Military Comanies like Blackwater than I do about our military.

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KBCraig wrote:

Feh. The Constitution was discarded in 1861, buried in 1913, and its grave thoroughly soaked with urine in 1933.

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People actually think the constitution means anything.

No one cares about the constitution, it's volated every day, most of the laws that come out of D.C. are unconsitutional.... no one cares. The bail out is unconstitutional.... no one cares..... the federal reserve is unconsitutional...... no one cares. I could go on and on all night.

Bureaucrats will do what they want as they do not have any fear of reprisal. We see it here all the time. How many people are unlawfully detained and/or arrested for lawful opencarry??? Many people have been treated like felony fugitives.....Out of all these people, how many times does the person win money, the officer get fired and thrown in jail? From my count after being on here for almost 3 years.... zero. Ocasionally someone will get a small settlement. Most if they are lucky just get an apology which is only words on paper and about as equally useless as the constitution.

People are suprised that the military will be "helping" out. Look at the trend, it's not that hard to believe.

Here's an interesting note, for those people on here who have bad open carry stops by some local PD. You know how hard and frustrating it can be to track the person down and follow up on it? Well, imagine trying to track down a member of the military who harasses you for open carry?

Why even bother having a constitution (sure, it's a nice and neat document) if it's going to be violated every day.

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Jared wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

Feh. The Constitution was discarded in 1861, buried in 1913, and its grave thoroughly soaked with urine in 1933.

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People actually think the constitution means anything.

No one cares about the constitution, it's volated every day, most of the laws that come out of D.C. are unconsitutional.... no one cares. The bail out is unconstitutional.... no one cares..... the federal reserve is unconsitutional...... no one cares. I could go on and on all night.

---

Why even bother having a constitution (sure, it's a nice and neat document) if it's going to be violated every day.

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Well, in that case, why have any laws or guidelines at all? Lets just let everyone do as they want and damn the consequences. (note sarcasm)

We have them because they work more often than they fail, and its not the politicians job up make sure they are upheld, it is ours as citizens. If politicians are getting away with "murder" then its because apathetic or defeatist people like you let them.

What part of "Of the people, by the people, for the people" don't you get?

And the next time you say "no one cares" you better be adding in my ignorant opinion, to end of that statement.

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FMCDH wrote:

Well, in that case, why have any laws or guidelines at all? Lets just let everyone do as they want and damn the consequences. (note sarcasm)

We have them because they work more often than they fail, and its not the politicians job up make sure they are upheld, it is ours as citizens. If politicians are getting away with "murder" then its because apathetic or defeatist people like you let them.

What part of "Of the people, by the people, for the people" don't you get?

And the next time you say "no one cares" you better be adding in my ignorant opinion, to end of that statement.

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They work more often then they fail? Is your head in the sand? Where do I begin... Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, ATF, DEA, Department of Education etc... all unconstitutional, does anyone care? No.

Because of apathetic or defeatest people like me? Again, when has voting changed anything. Even if the "right" person gets in in your district, how many times will they vote for a bill that's unconstitutional because it had a few goodies in it for them so they could score points with their district.

Of the people, by the people, for the people? It's cute language and it's nonsense. It's a social contract signed by a bunch of people who died over 200 years ago. The whole consent of the governed mindset is a bunch of nonsense. What if someone doesn't consent? Have you ever been asked to consent? It should be called what it is, a violent monopoly. Once people have that understanding, government would be very small. People would not be so quick to demand laws be passed for everything when the only way to enforce any law is with the threat of violence whether it's a smoking ban, a blue law, or murder. Most people could agree that laws against murder should be enforced with violence, but many people would not be so quick to agree for things like blue laws, smoking laws, or zoning laws.

My ignorant opinion? Sorry to see that your brainwashed because I'm not. Almost every single politician is self serving and the whole serving the people is nonsense. How many people were against the bailout? Probably about 90%, but it passed with flying colors because the "leaders" loaded it up with goodies for the people who were originally against it.


You said elected officials come and go but the consitution and it's amendments will outlive us all if you have anything to say about it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you do not have anything to say about it. Bureaucrats will do what they want because it's is almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything and 99% of American's are content with the present day as long as they can go home at night, crack open a six-pack and watch american idol.

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Jared wrote:

They work more often then they fail? Is your head in the sand? Where do I begin... Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, ATF, DEA, Department of Education etc... all unconstitutional, does anyone care? No.

Because of apathetic or defeatest people like me? Again, when has voting changed anything. Even if the "right" person gets in in your district, how many times will they vote for a bill that's unconstitutional because it had a few goodies in it for them so they could score points with their district.

Of the people, by the people, for the people? It's cute language and it's nonsense. It's a social contract signed by a bunch of people who died over 200 years ago. The whole consent of the governed mindset is a bunch of nonsense. What if someone doesn't consent? Have you ever been asked to consent? It should be called what it is, a violent monopoly. Once people have that understanding, government would be very small. People would not be so quick to demand laws be passed for everything when the only way to enforce any law is with the threat of violence whether it's a smoking ban, a blue law, or murder. Most people could agree that laws against murder should be enforced with violence, but many people would not be so quick to agree for things like blue laws, smoking laws, or zoning laws.

My ignorant opinion? Sorry to see that your brainwashed because I'm not. Almost every single politician is self serving and the whole serving the people is nonsense. How many people were against the bailout? Probably about 90%, but it passed with flying colors because the "leaders" loaded it up with goodies for the people who were originally against it.


You said elected officials come and go but the consitution and it's amendments will outlive us all if you have anything to say about it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you do not have anything to say about it. Bureaucrats will do what they want because it's is almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything and 99% of American's are content with the present day as long as they can go home at night, crack open a six-pack and watch american idol.

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Thank you for proving my point about you.

You obviously see the country as a lost cause, and everything is corrupt or going to HIHB, so you are still in this country why? You should join PrayingForWar on his island. Then you wouldn't have to answer to anyone....well....except for everyone else that was on the island.

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FMCDH wrote:

Thank you for proving my point about you.

You obviously see the country as a lost cause, and everything is corrupt or going to HIHB, so you are still in this country why? You should join PrayingForWar on his island. Then you wouldn't have to answer to anyone....well....except for everyone else that was on the island.

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[font="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"]
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
2) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry,firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate substantially to one of these topics, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom andliberty. [/font]

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FMCDH wrote:

Thank you for proving my point about you.

You obviously see the country as a lost cause, and everything is corrupt or going to HIHB, so you are still in this country why? You should join PrayingForWar on his island. Then you wouldn't have to answer to anyone....well....except for everyone else that was on the island.

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You haven't answered a single question I asked you. I see that you went for the proxy arguement about why don't I leave America. What farm shall I go to? I have no interest in your island or your apple pie view of America or relocating to any other plantation, when you break it down, it's just a bunch of politicians and other people trying to steal to get what they want from other people. All I care about is liberty, I don't really care too much for the "country" or group mentality.

I just call it what it is, you're obviously new to this site and have no clue about open carry and it's political ramifications in many localities. You will see over time that out of all the bad open carry stops and/or arrests that offendeing party offers nothing. Very few people get money, most get nothing.

You will see over time that the system was bought, sold, and paid for a long time ago. Because many people do something that's completely legal but will be harassed by the "police" who swore an oath to uphold the constitution. Again, it's an empty oath, because nothing will happen when they violate it.

Change the world, keep the faith, drink the kool-aid. When asked to jump by your commanding officer, you will respond with how high and you won't care about how constitutional something is. Your grandstanding speech about how the consitution and the amendments will outlive us all is nonsense. You will fall under the "I have a family to take care of excuse". You're pretty wet behind the ears.

Walk around Seattle with an handgun in open view, eventually a PD member will violate your rights, when you complain, we'll just tell you to move to another country

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FMCDH wrote:

Francis Marion wrote:

Gen Tommy Franks did not state any desire for the abolition of our Constitution, he warned against it. As testament to his words, just look at what happened in New Orleans; Constitutional rights were abandoned.

As for the theme of the original article, the military does train for domestic disturbances and has frequently had to deal with them but never on our own soil - with the exception of the National Guard - so, why would they not train for it especially while in the middle of two domestic conflicts?

I have seen these alarmist allegations appear many times and each of them fail to recognize one truth, that the military is composed of individuals that believe in the Constitution are not not mindless robots.

Click to expand...

I would tend to agree. Most of the people I serve with would sooner turn in their uniforms than be part of something, (official or not) that discards the Constitution. My "boss" may be the presiding president, but only so long as he follows and upholds the Constitution. I think the mass majority of men and woman who are serving in uniform would agree.

My job is to protect and defend the citizens of the United States, not to carry out the personal whims of an elected official. Elected officials come and go, the Constitution and its amendments will outlive us all if I have anything to say about it.

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God Bless you FMCDH that was/is my opinion when I was active duty and now. And I still believe the opinion of most all active duty military personnel.

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Jared wrote:

You haven't answered a single question I asked you. I see that you went for the proxy argument about why don't I leave America. What farm shall I go to? I have no interest in your island or your apple pie view of America or relocating to any other plantation, when you break it down, it's just a bunch of politicians and other people trying to steal to get what they want from other people. All I care about is liberty, I don't really care too much for the "country" or group mentality.

I just call it what it is, you're obviously new to this site and have no clue about open carry and it's political ramifications in many localities. You will see over time that out of all the bad open carry stops and/or arrests that offending party offers nothing. Very few people get money, most get nothing.

You will see over time that the system was bought, sold, and paid for a long time ago. Because many people do something that's completely legal but will be harassed by the "police" who swore an oath to uphold the constitution. Again, it's an empty oath, because nothing will happen when they violate it.

Change the world, keep the faith, drink the kool-aid. When asked to jump by your commanding officer, you will respond with how high and you won't care about how constitutional something is. Your grandstanding speech about how the Constitution and the amendments will outlive us all is nonsense. You will fall under the "I have a family to take care of excuse". You're pretty wet behind the ears.

Walk around Seattle with an handgun in open view, eventually a PD member will violate your rights, when you complain, we'll just tell you to move to another country

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You didn't really ask any questions, you just bellyached more about the same things. If you could site more facts than cliches out of the anti-establishment handbook, I would happy to address them.

As for your personal assertions about how I will choose if its ever time to make that decision of country or commander, only time will tell, but I believe I will face it with far more honor toward my fellow liberty loving Americans than those who blame the woes of the country on everyone else.

And in keeping with the spirit of the forum...

I have indeed walked down town Seattle while OCing on three occasions that I can recall. Of those three times, I was approached by LEOs only twice to ask why I was carrying a gun openly. I was approached by citizens at least 5 times more often, mostly out of curiosity. Of those two times I had to argue only once with the pair of beat cops about my rights, and when I challenged them to try and disarm me then justify it after the fact, they declined by agreeing that they couldn't prove any law was being broken. The other time I was actually asked by a patrol officer if I had a CPL, and when I asked him straight if he really believed that I needed one, it turned into an education session for him, with the help of the information that I have gathered from this site. (Thank you OCDO)

So thank you very much. I will Keep the faith, and I will change the world, but I dont care for Kool-aid. You can have mine when the "man" comes for ya.

right back at ya.


Edited for spelling

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KansasMustang wrote:

God Bless you FMCDH that was/is my opinion when I was active duty and now. And I still believe the opinion of most all active duty military personnel.

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I hope you are right because in New Orleans in 2005, most LEO's and national guard members had no problem confiscating firearms, this is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical.

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KansasMustang wrote:

Ya know I get real tired of some folks thinkin' they're smarter or wiser or whatever than others. That comment, "you primates might just screw this whole thing up" was totally uncalled for and unjustified.
WE as a whole, not in part are going to be responsible for whatever happens, and I for one will not sit idly by and be barnstormed by the Fascist leftwing gungrabbin' bastidges that want to turn my beloved country into a slave state. So what I'm saying is if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem! So go on out to your Pacific Island and let the rest of us Patriots try and fix this mess we're in.:cuss:

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With all due respect Sgt Major, you didn't stop us from getting in this mess in the first place. Now you whine about my comments calling obama an afro nazi, which HE IS, and for "thinkin' I'm smarter" than others? Gee, when I see 9/11 truthers and other numb skulls pointing at every article as "proof of the NWO" it's hard not to feel superior.

So not only did you do nothing to thwart the PC thugs while you were active you might even have been one. Thanks a lot!! I really enjoyed the sensitivity training and getting written up by an EO NCO for mocking his hyphenated-american sensitivity BS.

So before you lecture me on your "patriotism", maybe donate some money to the cause, then I'll give a damn about your opinion.

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PrayingForWar wrote:

So before you lecture me on your "patriotism", maybe donate some money to the cause, then I'll give a damn about your opinion.

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So what you are saying is that you sell your favor to the highest bidder? What does a financial contribution prove except that you have money to spare?I guess this means in your opinion only those who can afford to contribute financially are patriots.

Just because you buy your way to some "special title" doesn't mean you are any better than the rest of us. Get a grip and come down off of your elitist horse.

Besides making a financial contribution, posting online, and promising to go hide on an island, what have you done to defend freedom?