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Thread: Pennsylvania Sheriff Seeks Dismissal Of $1 Million Federal Lawsuit Brought By Meleanie Hain

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    News Release December 26, 2008:

    Attorneys for Lebanon County (PA) Sheriff Michael J. DeLeo today moved to dismiss a $1 million federal lawsuit brought by Meleanie Hain and her husband, asserting that the suit has no legal basis and should be thrown out.

    Hain claims she is entitled to $1 million in damages, including “emotional distress” and loss of babysitting clients, after Sheriff DeLeo revoked her license to carry a concealed firearm following complaints from parents that Hain posed a danger to the community by openly carrying a loaded semiautomatic firearm to her 5-year-old’s soccer games. Hain’s husband is also seeking damages, claiming that the sheriff’s actions caused him to lose the “companionship, consortium, society and services” of his wife, according to the Hain’s complaint filed in the case.

    Hain stated in a Dec. 12, 2008, Philadelphia Inquirer article that she openly carries a loaded semiautomatic handgun because, “I don’t really need anything extra in the way of the gun if I’m going to have to pull it out and I’m holding a baby and trying to shuttle two or three other kids.”

    The Legal Action Project of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is providing free legal assistance to Sheriff DeLeo. “It should be obvious to anyone that a civilian bringing an openly-carried, loaded semiautomatic weapon to a child’s soccer game poses a grave risk to the community,” said Daniel R. Vice, Senior Attorney at the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project.

    The Brady Center supports common sense gun policies that protect children and communities from gun violence. Every day, eight children and teens are shot and killed by a firearm and 48 more are wounded. Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S. Persons carrying loaded guns in public have repeatedly been involved in shootings, including accidental shootings of innocent bystanders. Studies show that laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have not reduced crime and, if anything, have increased violent crime, including murder and robbery.

    After Hain filed the lawsuit, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence offered to provide free legal assistance to Sheriff DeLeo. DeLeo is represented by David L. Schwalm and Scott D. McCarroll of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Attorneys with the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project plan to assist DeLeo’s counsel throughout the case. The motion to dismiss was filed today in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania.

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    Repeater wrote:
    The Brady Center supports common sense gun policies that protect children and communities from gun violence. Every day, eight children and teens are shot and killed by a firearm and 48 more are wounded. Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S. Persons carrying loaded guns in public have repeatedly been involved in shootings, including accidental shootings of innocent bystanders. Studies show that laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have not reduced crime and, if anything, have increased violent crime, including murder and robbery.


    I'd like two things:

    1) Extensively cite such statistics from a neutral organization on the matter, just like the pro-gun folks do from the NIJ, CDC, FBI, and other government (and non-gov't) organizations that present facts to the contrary.

    2) I'd like them to stop grouping law-abiding gun owners with gang-members and drug dealers under the age of 25 that they consider "children" in their statistics. If they were to remove that "anomaly" from their figures, they'd find they have about as much ground to stand on as the http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Trusting that this suit will proceed forward and that the Sheriff is severely spanked for his transgressions.

    The Brady Bunch is infamous for their lies and distortions - gang bangers and criminals are included in their list of "children" and they know it and don't care.
    http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

    A good citizen taking responsibility for the safety of her children and self can hardly be a threat to the safety of others. Quite to the contrary.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    "Every day, eight children and teens are shot and killed by a firearm and 48 more are wounded." More Brady Bunch bullcrap. no one is shot by firearms, they're shot by other people.

    http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

    NOTE: Firearms Statistics Include Gang Warfare, Self Defense Shootings and Criminals Killed by Police

    I'm sure that if one excludes the deaths from gang warfare, self defense, and criminals killed by police that the number of "children" that die in firearms related incidents would be very small.

    But hey libs, look at the greatest cause of death for children in the USA.

    http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/747403

    Since libs are the number one users of abortion as a means of birth control, who's the real murderers of children?

    I'd feel that my kids were saferin the prescence ofa honest citizen who's armed than around fetus murdering libbys.

    III
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Sorry, Mr. Sheriff.....but that wasn't Shinola you stepped in. Hope you know the difference now....same difference as a law abiding citizen and a criminal.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Center for Disease Control, 20 Leading Causes of Unintentional Injury Deaths, United States, 2001, All Races, Both Sexes, Ages: 1-14

    Motor vehicle- 4,550, 46.2%
    Drowning - 2,102, 17.4%
    Fire/burn - 482, 10.6%
    Suffocation - 250, 5.5%
    Pedestrian, Other - 145 3.2%
    Other Land Transport - 144, 3.2%
    Fall - 98, 2.2%
    Poisoning - 81, 1.8%
    Natural/ Environment - 73, 1.6%
    Firearm - 72, 1.6%
    Other Transport - 68, 1.5%
    Struck by or Against - 67, 1.5%
    Other Spec., classifiable - 62, 1.1%

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Huck wrote:
    "Every day, eight children and teens are shot and killed by a firearm and 48 more are wounded." More Brady Bunch bullcrap. no one is shot by firearms, they're shot by other people.

    http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

    NOTE: Firearms Statistics Include Gang Warfare, Self Defense Shootings and Criminals Killed by Police

    I'm sure that if one excludes the deaths from gang warfare, self defense, and criminals killed by police that the number of "children" that die in firearms related incidents would be very small.

    But hey libs, look at the greatest cause of death for children in the USA.

    http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/747403

    Since libs are the number one users of abortion as a means of birth control, who's the real murderers of children?

    I'd feel that my kids were saferin the prescence ofa honest citizen who's armed than around fetus murdering libbys.

    III
    I don't know how you managed to such a sharp turn, going on a tangent about abortion. I don't know anyone who loudly proclaims, "YAY! ABORTIONS!" And before you start throwing about ignorant words like "libs," keep in mind no one asks your political affiliation at the front door of the clinic. Its the lower class that can't afford to raise a child (or another or that matter) that is the demographic most entering those facilities.

    The world we live in is rarely Black/White, Con/Lib, Right/Wrong. There is a huge spectrum of grays and blurred lines, and sometimes pink polka dots. Try not to paint your reality with such a broad brush, and expect everyone to agree with you.

    But back to the topic at hand... Mark Twain had a cheeky quote that can apply to some of the practices of the Brady folks...

    "There are three kinds of falsehoods: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

    AC

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    "An openly carried, loaded, semi-automatic weapon at a child's soccer game poses a grave risk to the community. " Does that mean "law enforcement officers" are now officially banned from child's soccer games in the middle district of Pennsylvania? If not, why?
    You left off the CIVILIAN part. It only poses a grave risk when the gun carrier is a civilian. Nevermind that her gun wasn't bothering anyone at the soccor game. It wasn't running amuck, or shooting the place up. What would make a person think that a mother standing with her kids watching a soccor game would be a threat to society? Obviously she looks criminal.

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    I'm suprised that no one has called BS on this little gem:

    "Studies show that laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have not reduced crime and, if anything, have increased violent crime, including murder and robbery."

    Are they f-ing serious? What stats, reports, interviews, etc are they getting this crap from?

    Go get'em Melanie!!! We're pulling for ya!!!!!!!

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    I'm suprised that no one has called BS on this little gem:

    "Studies show that laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have not reduced crime and, if anything, have increased violent crime, including murder and robbery."

    Are they f-ing serious? What stats, reports, interviews, etc are they getting this crap from?

    Go get'em Melanie!!! We're pulling for ya!!!!!!!
    I hear you on that. If the Bradys had acually done any studies on CC they would know that that statement is a outright lie. But when have they ever told the truth?

    However, the Bradys could mean that CC has increased crime in states that dont allow it, from crims going to those states where it's safer for them.

    III
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Lott addresses this 'risk displacement of criminals minimizing their risk' IIRC in his book.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    From the article:

    The Legal Action Project of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is providing free legal assistance to Sheriff DeLeo. “It should be obvious to anyone that a civilian bringing an openly-carried, loaded semiautomatic weapon to a child’s soccer game poses a grave risk to the community,” said Daniel R. Vice, Senior Attorney at the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project.

    *************

    The grave risk to the community does not come from parents such as Melenie Hain who step up and take responsibility for the security of their family.

    The grave risk comes from political correctness groups such as the Brady Center's Legal Action Project.These gun grabbersattempt to deny justice to citizens whose basic human rights are arbitrarily seized by government over reach. They are fearful of losing in civil court so they will fight a technical legal war to prevent the case from coming to trial andconduct a public disinformation campaign in order to prejudice the jury pool.

    The Sheriff should never have gotten in bed with a policy group such as the Brady Campaign. He will regret that choice.




    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    How about a new tact.

    MELANIE HAIN FOR SHERIFF!

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    tack or, maybe, tactic

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Sorry, Mr. Sheriff.....but that wasn't Shinola you stepped in. Hope you know the difference now....same difference as a law abiding citizen and a criminal.
    Grandpa Simpson's problem is that with his highly incriminating statements to the media, he's been trying to LICK his shoes clean!
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    "An openly carried, loaded, semi-automatic weapon at a child's soccer game poses a grave risk to the community. " Does that mean "law enforcement officers" are now officially banned from child's soccer games in the middle district of Pennsylvania? If not, why?
    You left off the CIVILIAN part. It only poses a grave risk when the gun carrier is a civilian. Nevermind that her gun wasn't bothering anyone at the soccor game. It wasn't running amuck, or shooting the place up. What would make a person think that a mother standing with her kids watching a soccor game would be a threat to society? Obviously she looks criminal.
    Last time I checked, police officers were also civilians. Which means that technically, they would be included in the ridiculous statement by the Brady Bunch.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    "An openly carried, loaded, semi-automatic weapon at a child's soccer game poses a grave risk to the community. " Does that mean "law enforcement officers" are now officially banned from child's soccer games in the middle district of Pennsylvania? If not, why?
    You left off the CIVILIAN part. It only poses a grave risk when the gun carrier is a civilian. Nevermind that her gun wasn't bothering anyone at the soccor game. It wasn't running amuck, or shooting the place up. What would make a person think that a mother standing with her kids watching a soccor game would be a threat to society? Obviously she looks criminal.
    Last time I checked, police officers were also civilians. Which means that technically, they would be included in the ridiculous statement by the Brady Bunch.
    And that is what's most telling about Vice's statement. Clearly, he sees American citizens as mere 'civilians' while he sees the police as equivalent to our military.

    Of course the police are civilians, too. And they are also public servants, never our masters. The problem of course, is that the Brady Campaign needs a Police State to enforce their gun control schemes.

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    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Funny story, in relation, I was at a friends neighbor's house with him. The Neighbor was a County SWAT officer. He was talking of a particular case he'd worked and his wife said "Don't talk about that in front of the civilians". I looked up and told her "Lady YOU'RE the civilians, John and I are First Sergeants US ARMY" She gasped and stormed out.
    Melanie,,go get em Darlin!!! you shoulda sued for 50 Mil and settled out of court for 30Mil.
    And, as we all know the real deal. CRIME rates DROP overnight as soon as concealed carry laws are passed in states. When is the Brady bunch going to be made to tell the truth, course that'll never happen. Just like BHO and his regime will never tell the truth.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    KansasMustang wrote:
    And, as we all know the real deal. CRIME rates DROP overnight as soon as concealed carry laws are passed in states. When is the Brady bunch going to be made to tell the truth, course that'll never happen. Just like BHO and his regime will never tell the truth.
    I am no fan of Obama, so don't take this the wrong way... but please be careful with your choice of words. As we all know, words are very powerful, and the war of words is often more than half the battle. (I.E. "gun show loophole"...)

    A "regime" is a form of government. Obama does not have a regime, he has an administration. We may not like his administration, or any of the people he brings alongside him to goven our country for the next four years, but the last I checked we were still mostly pleased with the form of government that our founders set up.

    I've heard angry folks on the left use the term to describe the Bush administration as well, and I've pointed out their error. Of course, my points were ignored by them, but they weren't interested in truth, just angry sound bites...

    For what it's worth...

    TFred


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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    KansasMustang wrote:
    And, as we all know the real deal. CRIME rates DROP overnight as soon as concealed carry laws are passed in states. When is the Brady bunch going to be made to tell the truth, course that'll never happen. Just like BHO and his regime will never tell the truth.
    I am no fan of Obama, so don't take this the wrong way... but please be careful with your choice of words. As we all know, words are very powerful, and the war of words is often more than half the battle. (I.E. "gun show loophole"...)

    A "regime" is a form of government. Obama does not have a regime, he has an administration. We may not like his administration, or any of the people he brings alongside him to goven our country for the next four years, but the last I checked we were still mostly pleased with the form of government that our founders set up.

    I've heard angry folks on the left use the term to describe the Bush administration as well, and I've pointed out their error. Of course, my points were ignored by them, but they weren't interested in truth, just angry sound bites...

    For what it's worth...

    TFred
    Tfred, I've heard it announced,,heard the sound bite, Nancy Pelosi I believe said it. That the far left wacko's are anxious for Obama to get in and RULE.
    If that ain't a regime, I don't know what is.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    The Brady Center supports common sense gun policies that protect children and communities from gun violence.
    Oh B fricken' S. The Brady Center supports nothing less than the complete confiscation of ALL citizen-owned firearms.

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    TFred wrote:
    ...the last I checked we were still mostly pleased with the form of government that our founders set up.
    Speak for yourself.

    I am certainly not "still" pleased with the corrupt, behemothic monstrosity our government has become.

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Lady YOU'RE the civilians, John and I are First Sergeants US ARMY
    Pure gold!

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