View Poll Results: Should Citizen Police Ride-Alongs be allowed to LOC/CCW with the appropriate permitting/licensing?

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  • Yes

    24 77.42%
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    7 22.58%
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Thread: Portland Police Bureau ride along policy

  1. #1
    Regular Member Window_Seat's Avatar
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    In the Portland Police Ride-Along Request Form application of the Portland Police Bureau, one of the regulations for being a rider is:

    6. You cannot carry a firearm even if you have a concealed weapons permit. The exception is a certified police officer.
    As a question, if an Officer or the Lieutenant of the Department (or an Official of high rank at the department) wanted, could he/she make a decision other than #6 of the rules for a citizen (non sworn officer) to carry either LOC or CCW? Is this a departmental policy or is it a state regulation or city/county ordinance?

    Erik.

  2. #2
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    Here In Albany It has to be cleared With the LT.. But its Up to him.. there is no Rule against it

  3. #3
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    I am all for the individual right to carry a weapon any wayone would like. It's a persons right regardless of anyones opinion or legal mumbo jumbo. But there are some limits and liability to when and where.

    I normally don't agree with Portland's policies, but can understand this one. Same reason I would not go hunting with people I don't know and trust. Did that once and will never do it again. Part of self preservation is not only having a firearm, but being wise as towhen you will willinglyassociate when others have them too.

    If it is for officer safety or public, it makes no difference. If one doesn't want to ride around Portland, in a police car without their firearm. Don't ask to go on a ride along.Sure it would be interesting, but do I want toleave myself unarmed for a ride with Portlands finest? I'd rather miss the experience and justhear aboutthere exploits in "the Peoples Propaganda".






  4. #4
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    Since they have a waiver for you to sign, perhaps you could have them sign one as well...

    I (Representative of the Portland Police Department), agree that since the ride-along policies of the PPDeliminate the ability of the citizen riding with a Police Officer to protect themselves, the PPD will be 100% financially and legally responsible for any and all injury to the citizen that may occur because they deprived the citizen oftheir means to lawfully provide for their own self-defense.
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    My question is: are they going to frisk you? If not, how are they going to know unless they ask (don't lie though). Here's an opportunity where CC gives you "the element of suprise" and "social advantage."

    My opinion is: Screw their rules. It's not a state law, and if it is a city law, it's unenforcable under Preemption. OC would sure be nicer, but if you have the CHL, use it .

    This just might be an interesting thing to challenge. Because Preemption is pretty clear, they really shouldn't be able to prevent you from carrying at all. Too bad I don't live in Portland

    ...Maybe I'll check with Springield Police...
    ...Orygunner...

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    Orygunner wrote:
    My question is: are they going to frisk you? If not, how are they going to know unless they ask (don't lie though). Here's an opportunity where CC gives you "the element of suprise" and "social advantage."

    My opinion is: Screw their rules. It's not a state law, and if it is a city law, it's unenforcable under Preemption. OC would sure be nicer, but if you have the CHL, use it .

    ...Orygunner...
    yabutt... The problem comes when, as part of your ride-a-long, you pick up a criminal and take him to jail. As soon as you get into the jail with your pistola you are breaking the law...

    -adamsesq


  6. #6
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    See, now right there is a good time to bring up the subject:

    Me: "Do I have to check my legally carried firearm before entering the jail?"

    Officer: :what:

    ...Orygunner...

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    Orygunner wrote:
    See, now right there is a good time to bring up the subject:

    Me: "Do I have to check my legally carried firearm before entering the jail?"

    Officer: :what:

    ...Orygunner...
    That was the point at which the officer just told me to put it in her trunk in my last ride along. But those were exceptional circumstances riding with a friend.

    -adamsesq

  8. #8
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    I thought about riding along with JCPD.. problem is I can 'patrol' this town on foot in a matter of minutes.. In fact I think I spend more time around town armed than do the officers who work here.. hmmm....

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    Your poll is flawed. It allows one to vote Yes and No, which I did.

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    deanf wrote:
    Your poll is flawed. It allows one to vote Yes and No, which I did.
    Isn't thata little like doing something nice for someone, then stealing their wallet? One negates the other?

    Actually, I seem to recall that in the past you could change your vote. There used to be a little notice automatically on the polls that said you could do that. But at that time, the forum software recognized you and subtracted the earlier vote from the previous category's tabulation.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Window_Seat's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    deanf wrote:
    Your poll is flawed. It allows one to vote Yes and No, which I did.
    Isn't thata little like doing something nice for someone, then stealing their wallet? One negates the other?

    Actually, I seem to recall that in the past you could change your vote. There used to be a little notice automatically on the polls that said you could do that. But at that time, the forum software recognized you and subtracted the earlier vote from the previous category's tabulation.
    I tried to edit so as to make it one option, but couldn't... Lesson learned...

    Erik.

  12. #12
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    The reason the PD doesn't allow non-officers to carry a firearm on ride alongs is liability. If you are on a ride along and something happens which requires YOU to use a weapon and you haven't been trained by the PD/state LE certification, etc, the department is going to be in a lot of trouble, regardless if the use of force was justifiable. I agree that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but personally, I don't think citizens should be going out on the street with officers anyways. They should be able to help in an administrative capacity, but not on the street. There are too many risks involved...and to add someone to the mix who is armed and NOT trained in how the department/state handles use of force, its just not smart from a liability standpoint. The departments don't want the publicity that they'd receive from this and it wouldn't portray them in a good light.
    Philosophically, I don't have issues with armed citizens on ride-alongs because, honestly, if you are going to be on the street, you damn better be armed. I think sending unarmed citizens on ride-alongs is stupid, but most departments don't have the money to train people adequately to satisfy state requirements. Reality/experience says they are doing it to cover their own asses. They don't care if you get hurt, just don't carry a gun to defend yourself. Sending unarmed citizens into the streets on patrol is a bad idea. The bad guys don't know that you are just doing a ride-along, nor do they care. They associate anyone riding in a LE vehicle as a cop. As far as they are concerned, you are a detective if in plain clothes, etc. Another thing...personally, I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I find myself in a shootout situation on the street, etc and the dumbass I'm riding with barely qualified and can't hit the broadside of a barn if it hit them first......and I'm stuck there......WITHOUT my gun.

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    Yeah ya would, because police officers don't even carry their firearm into the jail.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Window_Seat's Avatar
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    Woah, my threads never become resurrected. :shock:

    I have to disagree that civilians shouldn't be allowed on rides, especially to assist. Saying this is like saying citizens can't sit in on court sessions. Think court is safer than ride-alongs? Then why are guns not allowed in court during session? We pay these people with our tax money, so we should be allowed to watch them do their job and be armed. As a LAC with no felony, no misd's. not mental, etc., I should be allowed to check on that Officer who is on that traffic stop in a drug infested neighborhood if there are no other units available to respond, but that's just my opinion. There are plenty who would rabidly disagree with me. Hopefully this changes as we get back our freedoms. AZ is getting closer, and I just might go back.

    Everything has a risk. If you want to never risk your life and be completely safe from any of the dangerous elements, then the best thing to do would be to stay home, but you could get hit by a stray bullet. As far as the unnecessary liability, that is something that we have to put an end to ourselves.

    Erik.

  15. #15
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Come on now. We all know that criminals are less of a threat to an OCer than a Portland Cop.

    Okay SOME Portland cops, I'm sure there are a lot of good ones up there.I hope to check that for myself this summer if I can.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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  16. #16
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    I did a ride along awhile back with an officer who is a close friend. And part of their policy is no weapons (CHL or knives). I had no problem with it, he apologized. HOWEVER, he was very carefull in showing me how to unlock his shotgun in the console of his cruiser in case he needed help. He also gave me his back up keys for the car to hold onto during the shift.
    Live Free or Die!

  17. #17
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Having built a few police cars (all but two builtfor three agencies in the three years I was a mech for a local gov't) I'd be asking any officer I rode with......"If the SHTF where is the lock switch". On the other hand, I can't imagine going out on a patrol shift as a ride along and not being armed. I'd just have to decline to opportunity to ride. If you're in the front seat, you're just as much a target as any other officer. Unarmed, you're just a liability to the officer you're riding with.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  18. #18
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    I wouldn't go somewhere that I couldn't take my gun. Unless of course I absolutely have to i.e on a plane, etc..

  19. #19
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    The majority of the times that I fly I carry. Then again I'm a pilot,own the plane, and never fly without being armed after an incident where a "greenie" was quite aggressively racing after my plane after an off field landing (which I immediately turned into a departure when he started racing at the meat grinder on the front of my bird).

    I have wondered how that "no firearms beyond TSA security" thing works for general aviation pilots since, if we go to an airport with TSA security,wefly in behind it. Ifwe have a weapon in the airplane would we be in violation of the law?I asked anagent inside the Medford airport about that and she got her supervisor as she had no idea. He wasdumbfounded and had never heard or considered the posibility.Thye referred me to Washington D.C.

    I can't see leaving the firearm in the airplane when a GA pilot lands at an airport with TSA security as light aircrafthave HORRIBLE door locks. On the other hand,taking it with you (concealed carry or in the flight bag)would havethe pilotwalking inside the "sterile area" of the airport (flightline all the way to the FBO) packing heat.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  20. #20
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    The Eugene airport has a separate portion for private planes. In our case the restrictions wouldn't apply since it's outside TSA jurisdiction. I thought pilots all carried guns now I could of course be mistaken.

  21. #21
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Very few commercial (airline) pilots carry firearms. The hoops to jump through to get the authorization is nuts and the program is implemented like something out of the three stooges.

    My understanding is that the licensed to carry a firearm on board pilot must still go through TSA security. Wouldn't you think that the guywith afederal license to carry in the cockpit, coming to work to ...... carry in the cockpit..... would be passed through TSA without thedamn X-ray and pat downs?

    I suppose he could have a concealed nail clipper with a file though.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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