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Editor admits, displays ignorance on open carry issue

TFred

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It is rare to read an editorial displaying such total ignorance, not only of general open carry and Second Amendment issues, but also of the specific details surrounding a story. Ms. Hain has not sought out publicity, but in fact has tried to avoid it, granting limited press interactions at the urging of her counsel and to further the open carry cause in general. We all owe her a debt of gratitude for her willingness to take the publicity on this matter, and for her efforts to hold those who abuse their power to account for those actions.

This editor really needs some educating.

TFred

http://www.ldnews.com/opinion/ci_11336108

Can’t find wrong that needs righted

Editor:
Lebanon Daily News

I am forced to apologize to the reading public. With so many other concerns to write about, I tried to restrain myself from writing on the Meleanie Hain story but could do so no longer.

With her lawsuit pending before the courts, I now am experiencing an outrage so great that only a dismissal of the case by the judge can quell it. I am appalled at people who create unusual or controversial situations and then try to profit from them. Hain’s case is typical of this process.

What damages did she incur? If you are wrongly accused of a crime, you cannot recoup your attorney costs! Since she chose not to use her concealed-weapons permit at the soccer game, what trauma did she suffer? She appeared to revel in the publicity of the story. She claims that Sheriff Michael DeLeo has traumatized her in some way. If I understand correctly, she was not prohibited from owning her gun after her concealed-carry permit was temporarily revoked.

Let me first clarify by saying that I do not like guns, have never owned one and have never shot one. However, I do respect the right of individuals to own them based on the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution. But I also recognize the limitations of this amendment. Restrictions on gun ownership and/or gun responsibilities are not designed to take weapons away from the general populous. To extrapolate the Second Amendment to the degree many gun lobbyists and some (not necessarily the majority) gun advocates do would lead to the ownership of nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles by those who could afford them. To this end it must be noted that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to assure that the federal government could not raise a standing army more powerful than the state militias.

I would appreciate an explanation from gun owners who have obtained a concealed-weapons permit as to why someone would go through the painstaking process of obtaining a concealed-weapons permit and then not utilize that permit (and common sense) when attending a youth soccer game. Why would someone do something such as this unless to draw attention to a political cause advocated by that individual and other associates?

Now they wish to be rewarded in a court of law and profit from an action that traumatized many people at that soccer game. Maybe those who attended that soccer game should seek litigation against and compensation from the individual that caused the trauma imposed on both their children and themselves. Wouldn’t that be poetic justice?

Karl Kohr

Lebanon
 

david.ross

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My reply to the article which is posted on the forum.

Open carry is a right. People need a LTCF(License to carry a firearm), not a conceal carry permit, to carry a firearm in a vehicle or a city of first class like Philadelphia.

Yes, you have displayed ignorance in your writing, but to your own admit you don't know anything on firearms nor the laws surrounding them.

I open carry all the time, I prefer it. I even open carry in to the bank, though everyone who works there knows me well enough. The grocery store managers tell anyone who complains about me to go "pound sand" and they're not kicking out a patron of the store. Vets also walk up to me and thank me for exercising a right they fought hard for in the war(s).

Open carrying shows the People who are armed and we do care about our rights. For those who want to strip us of our rights, they call themselves gun control groups talking about the safety of the public calling out, "Think of the Children."

Why open carry, to show people we care about our right. Self defense is also a right, which the same gun control groups will fight against.

I urge you to watch the video when Mrs. Hain was on tv.
http://www.lildobe.net/gallery2/v/PAFOA/Meleanie/SFN+on+Lyn+Doyle.flv.html

If you watch the video, you might be a bit shocked what comes out from the gun control representative's mouth. He mentions people have the right to yell or scream for help, not defend themselves, in what story was told by a caller a potential rape situation.

These are the people who want to take away our rights, this is why many open carry. This may not be way I open carry, but I support the argument for reasons of I want to keep my rights.

I hope Mrs. Hain wins, as what happened was "official oppression", which is just a step away from a police state/a 1984 if we start allowing authority to take rights away if we allow such behavior.

I'm done for now, you can join the open carry forum at http://www.opencarry.org

Thank you for asking about the issue, even though your presumptions were incorrect.

Sincerely,
Insane Kangaroo
 

Legba

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She wasn't traumatized by having her rights violated, but the other attendees at the game were, without any usurpation of their rights? And if the state militias are supposed to be superior to the standing federal army, then why is the Ohio National Guard using Vietnam-era leftovers?

-ljp
 

Doug Huffman

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On a brief perusal...

I wonder what Kohr paid to be called 'editor' while being able to write and evidently publish "weapons away from the general populous[sic]."

I tried to and may have sent:

The collective conspiracy of ignorance only masquerades as common sense. Your premise, Kohr, is false.
For now IK's comment is the only one showing. I suggest that it would be more effective over a human's name.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.
 

SouthernBoy

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Wow, makes me glad I live in Virginia.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether or not these people feel threatened or intimidated by a lady OC'ing a gun. Frankly, it's none of their business. What appalls me the most are the comments of her fellow Pennsylvanians about her decision.
 

TFred

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Hcidem wrote:
Please note that this link is from a LETTER TO THE EDITOR. This is not the Lebanon Daily News editorial. This is an important detail.
Wow, I think you are right. From the wording of the beginning of the letter, I thought it was the Opinion Editor of the newspaper. It is worded from a standpoint of "well, I've decided to write about this now, so you will now know what I have to say"... It rather assumes the letter will be printed.

Apologies for the misleading Subject.

TFred
 

Hcidem

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Doug Huffman wrote:
While you are correct, it is not clearly differentiated from an editorial opinion (and for that I apologize to Kohr for expecting him to have an editors standards), why is that "an important detail"?

Perhaps you are right. These are the two links I found which make the difference:

http://www.ldnews.com/editorial

http://www.ldnews.com/letterseditor



I hope you're not trying to bait me on this, Doug. This is an important detail because editors represent newspapers. For many newspapers their opinion is the official opinion of that newspaper.

On the other hand, letters to the editor are merely submitted commentary - much the same as the comments you and I left in the comment section beneath Kohr's letter. They do not represent a newspaper's official opinion.

They might be selectively chosen for print because they highlight a particular point-of-view the paper holds. However, many papers select opposing views to fostercontroversy or show how ill-worded their opposition can prove itself to be.
 

Hcidem

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TFred wrote:
... From the wording of the beginning of the letter, I thought it was the Opinion Editor of the newspaper. It is worded from a standpoint of "well, I've decided to write about this now, so you will now know what I have to say"... It rather assumes the letter will be printed.
...


Not a problem. I also thought read it as though it was from the editor. I looked closer after reading the commentary on Kohr's quality of writing.

I would use the word, presumptive, to describe this guy. He might just be one of thoselocal curmudgeons who spends his retirement collecting box tops and writing letters to the editor. He wrote as though readers were waiting for his two bits on the topic.

By the way...thanks for bringing his letter to our attention.
 

rodbender

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I loved it when Melanie said 11% of the time LEOs shoot an innocent bystander and 2% of the time citizens with guns shoot innocent bystanders and nobody disputed it. Not even the 32 year veteran LEO.
 

SouthernBoy

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rodbender wrote:
I loved it when Melanie said 11% of the time LEOs shoot an innocent bystander and 2% of the time citizens with guns shoot innocent bystanders and nobody disputed it. Not even the 32 year veteran LEO.
Yep, I saw that, too. Also something she could have pointed out is the fact that private citizens have a higher percentage of successful hits on BG's than do police. And the reason is because police officers are easy to spot. They wear uniforms and the BG's pretty much know who and where they are and the fact that they're armed. They don't know this about citizens so when a citizen pulls a gun and fires, chances are he is not only closer to the BG, but catches the BG off guard and is able to land hits better.
 

Grapeshot

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SouthernBoy wrote:
rodbender wrote:
I loved it when Melanie said 11% of the time LEOs shoot an innocent bystander and 2% of the time citizens with guns shoot innocent bystanders and nobody disputed it. Not even the 32 year veteran LEO.
Yep, I saw that, too. Also something she could have pointed out is the fact that private citizens have a higher percentage of successful hits on BG's than do police. And the reason is because police officers are easy to spot. They wear uniforms and the BG's pretty much know who and where they are and the fact that they're armed. They don't know this about citizens so when a citizen pulls a gun and fires, chances are he is not only closer to the BG, but catches the BG off guard and is able to land hits better.
Some even practice/shoot more frequently. :)

Yata hey
 

david.ross

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Email address of person who wrote article:

Karlton K. Kohr
agreyhound2go@yahoo.com



I wrote the person, and received what was a very rude reply back in regards to the quality of my writing while using my common name.

Since his reply was so rude to my well written and nice email, maybe he should listen to what others have to say.
:monkey

Dear Insane Kangaroo:

Thank you for the response to my letter. You sound like a paid political announcement. Politics have nothing to do with my writing. It is common sense that is lacking---that is the point.
There is no need for a gun at a soccer game for six year olds. If another person showed up with a gun and started shooting, I assume that you would advocate that Ms Hain return fire and put even more citizens at risk.
Your message smacks of the NRA. As I had said, I do not advocate the move of Sheriff DeLeo and I respect the rights of citizens to arm themselves. They should have some consideration and respect for their fellow citizens though.
However your response, as I said, appears to be nothing short of a paid political announcement. If this truly is how YOU believe than you should have used your real name. You have not shown me the courtesy of using your real name and any name that you use hence will be questionable.
Respectfully,
Karl


--- On Thu, 1/1/09, Insane Kangaroo <insane.kangaroo@furryzone.com> wrote:

> > From: Insane Kangaroo <insane.kangaroo@furryzone.com>
> > Subject: re: can't find wrong that needs righted
> > To: agreyhound2go@yahoo.com
> > Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 5:13 AM
> > Open carry is a right. People need a LTCF(License to carry a
> > firearm),
> > not a conceal carry permit, to carry a firearm in a vehicle
> > or a city of
> > first class like Philadelphia.
> >
> > Yes, you have displayed ignorance in your writing, but to
> > your own admit
> > you don't know anything on firearms nor the laws
> > surrounding them.
> >
> > I open carry all the time, I prefer it. I even open carry
> > in to the
> > bank, though everyone who works there knows me well enough.
> > The grocery
> > store managers tell anyone who complains about me to go
> > "pound sand" and
> > they're not kicking out a patron of the store. Vets
> > also walk up to me
> > and thank me for exercising a right they fought hard for in
> > the war(s).
> >
> > Open carrying shows the People who are armed and we do care
> > about our
> > rights. For those who want to strip us of our rights, they
> > call
> > themselves gun control groups talking about the safety of
> > the public
> > calling out, "Think of the Children."
> >
> > Why open carry, to show people we care about our right.
> > Self defense is
> > also a right, which the same gun control groups will fight
> > against.
> >
> > I urge you to watch the video when Mrs. Hain was on tv.
> > http://www.lildobe.net/gallery2/v/PAFOA/Meleanie/SFN+on+Lyn+Doyle.flv.html
> >
> > If you watch the video, you might be a bit shocked what
> > comes out from
> > the gun control representative's mouth. He mentions
> > people have the
> > right to yell or scream for help, not defend themselves, in
> > what story
> > was told by a caller a potential rape situation.
> >
> > These are the people who want to take away our rights, this
> > is why many
> > open carry. This may not be way I open carry, but I support
> > the argument
> > for reasons of I want to keep my rights.
> >
> > I hope Mrs. Hain wins, as what happened was "official
> > oppression", which
> > is just a step away from a police state/a 1984 if we start
> > allowing
> > authority to take rights away if we allow such behavior.
> >
> > I'm done for now, you can join the open carry forum at
> > http://www.opencarry.org
> >
> > Thank you for asking about the issue, even though your
> > presumptions were
> > incorrect.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Insane Kangaroo
 

TFred

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There is no need for a gun at a soccer game for six year olds. If another person showed up with a gun and started shooting, I assume that you would advocate that Ms Hain return fire and put even more citizens at risk.
Wow,

This guy must be either crazy, or he has absolutely no one in his life that he cares about.

Apparently he would prefer that the victims at the scene of an active shooter just hang around waiting to be murdered. His credibility as a normal human being has been completely lost.

TFred
 

Hcidem

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If we were to take Mr. Kohr's reply to insane.kangarooat face value, we would be lead to believe his only issue with Ms. Hain was her carrying a gun to her child's soccer game. Yet, his original letter to the editor was essentially aimed at denouncing her civil lawsuit - his jab at her 2A rights were merely incidental to his argument.

He now shows a marked disdain for gun owners while trying to claim some level of respect for citizen's rights to arm themselves. He seems to equate "common sense" with "lowest common denominator." He has no true respect for civil rights. How can he when he is so blatantly ignorant of them?
 
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