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Some Thoughts

AWDstylez

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SFCRetired wrote:
That said, is it perhaps the perception of a small percentage of police officers that we "civilians" are trespassing on what they perceive as "police prerogatives"?


Absolutely.This has been pointed outbefore in these type of threads and many people agreewith it, myself included. A good number of cops would like to think they're above the average citizen and in an exclusive, special privilegeclub (they forget that they're employees of the average citizen). Anything you do that might make them feel less superior or make their club seem less exclusive is going to offend them. You pretty much answered your own question.
 

Michigander

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A small percentage (or in some departments a large percentage) of cops get into it for all the wrong reasons. If someone wants to compensate for their own insecurities, so they become a cop, its reasonably easy to understand why they would feel like we are cramping their style, because we have the same level of firepower they do. Takes away their feeling of superiority. In Arizona there are a fair number of such idiots, but no cop will ever bug you about OCing. It all boils down to whether or not we have done our part, not the quality of the cops themselves.
 

GumiBear

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nitrovic wrote:
What does this story have to do with opencarry or gun rights? Or are we just throwing jabs at police officers again? The story is below, it has NOTHING to do with open carrying (which is very misleading in the thread name)

IMHO it is relevent. SFCRetiredwas just asking why LEO's oppose open carry. Is it that openly carrying a firearm is like stepping on their toes and wandering in their territory. The story relates to a mindset that if you wear a t-shirt that say"POLICE" again you are wandering into their territory and they don't like it. Now ina world according to GumiBear, wearing a black t-shirt with large white block letters that say "POLICE" is not a good idea, we've all seen officers wearing this attire. Now should he have been ticketed for it? I'd say no, but awarning not towear it again would suffice.
 

GumiBear

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nitrovic wrote:
This story is about a man wearing a "police" t-shirt. NOT OPEN CARRYING.


True but it falls into the police philosphy for a small majority, that this is "for me, not you" just as open carry does. I'd also like to point out that the OPsaid "is it perhaps the perception of a small percentage of police officers that we "civilians" are trespassing on what they perceive as "police prerogatives?" He/She shows that the majority of police may notfeel this way. So I don't see this as police bashing at all, but tieing in the t-shirt to open carry for a small percentage of our officers. The OP apparently sees that the t-shirt is no big deal and neither is open carry, but a small percentage of police see this as "Their perogative" and we as civilians should not have that perogative. I feel he/she was only tieing the two "no big deal" events toa small percentage of "police perogative" mentality that may see it as a big deal.

Besides what is misleading? The topic of the discussion is "Some Thoughts..." In the OP's post he/she said;

"BTW, check out this link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474324,00.html


nothing in the link, this statement, or the topic of discussionsuggests it will be open carry related. However, the orginal question that spurred the discussionIS open carry related which conforms to forum rules.


edit: spelling
 

GumiBear

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And this is what exactly I got from your original post. I too have a VERY HIGH regard for our officers. They have a stressful job and have to deal with the low lifes of society everyday and my hat is off to them. There is no way I could do their job, and when I am pulled over I try to do everything I can to diffuse their stress and am respectful as possible! I feel every ranger, officer, sheriff, deputy deserves my respect until such time as they loose it, but even then I will always remain civl to them. I've even had an officer one time knock 10 miles off my speeding ticket because when he pulled me over I turned on my flashers, turned off my engine, place the keys on the dash, turned on the interior light, rolled down the window,and kept both hands on top of the steering wheel. I was respectful and understanding. He told me why he cut me some slack and thanked me for my actions and asked if I had family that were officers, I said no but I understand that the job they do can suck at times and I don't want to be one of those sucky times.

edit: Grammar, ok I suck
 

Devils Advocate

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SFCRetired wrote:
I've been trying to understand why some police officers have such a negative reaction to a citizen legally open carrying a firearm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that, prior to WWII, open carry was quite common in most areas. After WWII, open carry became a privilege of the police while on duty.

That said, is it perhaps the perception of a small percentage of police officers that we "civilians" are trespassing on what they perceive as "police prerogatives"?

BTW, check out this link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474324,00.html

I would never have thought, not in a million years, that wearing a T-shirt with the word "Police" on it would constitute impersonating an officer.

First off... we all worry about fake cops breaking down our door and not knowing if they are real or not.

Why would we NOT thinkthat wearing such logo apparel would be illegal? Knowing it is permissible for anyonetowear "POLICE" logo apparel is rather scary.

Since when has it become fashionable to wear clothing thatmakes you appear to be the "POLICE" ??? People who are not actually the police and wearsuch ashirt are mall ninjas.



In Virginia, you can wear policelabeled clothingand even a badge that says the same. The impersonation only comes when you actually try to use the position of a police officer to gain something.



So your post about police reaction was fine. But why you needed to post about the POLICE shirt worn by a guy in a bar was pointless.



I suspect the police do not like people pretending to be them. They already have 1% of cops giving them a bad name and now they can increase the number due to citizens that want toplay police while they get drunk in the bar. Nobody knows the guy is not a cop. All they see a man wearing a shirt clearly identifying the wearer as a the POLICE and getting stupid drunk.

From my knowledge theposition of a police officeris very competitive and you are lucky to even get selected to attend the academy. Then you have to attend the academy for 6 months and hope you make it. Then another 3 months with a training officer.

If you make it through all that youearned the right to wear that title "POLICE" on anything you wear. But now you have people who have not done any of it wanting to get credit for something they have not accomplished.

I would be upset if some citizenstarted wearing military medals they were not awarded. But it is actually against the law in Virginia while wearing a POLICE shirt is not!!

Go figure!
 

GumiBear

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nitrovic wrote:
I'm not doubting you had no ill intentions with this post. I just know from experience that the police haters will come on here and pile on. Happens every time here.
nitrovicI couldn't agree more. It really irritates me, it's like saying everyone in the military are war mongers, when we know that isn't true. Are there bad cops? Sure but what job doesn't have panty wastes. but that doesn't mean everyone is bad. some folks have had bad experiences, I for one have not had any at all. The debate is good though and hopefully those LEO's that read this forum will see that not everyone are cocked and loaded at the smallest infraction of their action and remember that they too are human. Then again there are those here who have had bad experiences and understandably it has tainted them against most LEO's. The quest, at least for me, is to talk about it, debate it and come to a mutual understanding. Getting into the skull of our police is a good excercise to understand what we are up against when it comes to the open carry movement of all statesthat don't have it yet.It just better arms us to have a civil conversation with our local PD about our God given rights, or Darwin given rights if you are so inclined.
 

GumiBear

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Devils Advocate wrote:
First off... we all worry about fake cops breaking down our door and not knowing if they are real or not.

Why would we NOT thinkthat wearing such logo apparel would be illegal? Knowing it is permissible for anyonetowear "POLICE" logo apparel is rather scary.

Since when has it become fashionable to wear clothing thatmakes you appear to be the "POLICE" ??? People who are not actually the police and wearsuch ashirt are mall ninjas.



In Virginia, you can wear policelabeled clothingand even a badge that says the same. The impersonation only comes when you actually try to use the position of a police officer to gain something.



So your post about police reaction was fine. But why you needed to post about the POLICE shirt worn by a guy in a bar was pointless.



I suspect the police do not like people pretending to be them. They already have 1% of cops giving them a bad name and now they can increase the number due to citizens that want toplay police while they get drunk in the bar. Nobody knows the guy is not a cop. All they see a man wearing a shirt clearly identifying the wearer as a the POLICE and getting stupid drunk.

From my knowledge theposition of a police officeris very competitive and you are lucky to even get selected to attend the academy. Then you have to attend the academy for 6 months and hope you make it. Then another 3 months with a training officer.

If you make it through all that youearned the right to wear that title "POLICE" on anything you wear. But now you have people who have not done any of it wanting to get credit for something they have not accomplished.

I would be upset if some citizenstarted wearing military medals they were not awarded. But it is actually against the law in Virginia while wearing a POLICE shirt is not!!

Go figure!
+1 Devils Advocate
 

Sheriff

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SFCRetired wrote:
I would never have thought, not in a million years, that wearing a T-shirt with the word "Police" on it would constitute impersonating an officer.
The charge was dismissed. As it should have been.
 

Devils Advocate

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GumiBear wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
I'm not doubting you had no ill intentions with this post. I just know from experience that the police haters will come on here and pile on. Happens every time here.
nitrovicI couldn't agree more. It really irritates me, it's like saying everyone in the military are war mongers, when we know that isn't true. Are there bad cops? Sure but what job doesn't have panty wastes. but that doesn't mean everyone is bad. some folks have had bad experiences, I for one have not had any at all. The debate is good though and hopefully those LEO's that read this forum will see that not everyone are cocked and loaded at the smallest infraction of their action and remember that they too are human. Then again there are those here who have had bad experiences and understandably it has tainted them against most LEO's. The quest, at least for me, is to talk about it, debate it and come to a mutual understanding. Getting into the skull of our police is a good excercise to understand what we are up against when it comes to the open carry movement of all statesthat don't have it yet.It just better arms us to have a civil conversation with our local PD about our God given rights, or Darwin given rights if you are so inclined.
I see a group of people who have been stung by or heard abouta bad LEO interaction. TheyWANT to believe that this is how all LEOs arebecauseit is so easy to hate. It comes easy and you do not have to open yourself up to more heart break.

Look at it this way guys and gals.

When your date dumps you after just one night out, do you just believe that is how it is and not date any more? Do you cut off all contact the opposite sex because you KNOW what is going to happen every time you take them out to dinner?

No!

You keep dating! You will put up with it and take a chance. You put yourself out there and take the risk. You know not all dates are going to end up this way. You will eventually "get lucky".

But why are you willing to do all that only to possibly get dumped again? Because you are hoping to actually get something at the end of the night that is well worth it.

Most Americans have that mindset "What's in it for me?"

What is in it for me if I be nice to a police officer? NOTHING! I could be nice only to have him be a jerk.

So why not just be an a-hole form the start and beat him at his own game?

Because not all police officers are you there to break your heart!

Being a police officer is a job that many people want but few can qualify to do. Most police officers do it because they enjoy dealing with people. They have a desire to help others. They like giving back to their community.

Sure, even in school we had 1% of the students that were bullies! We are not going to get away from that no matter where you go!!

People here need to be honest withthemselves and get over it. Not all cops are bad so why dowe talking about it?
 

Sheriff

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Devils Advocate wrote:
From my knowledge theposition of a police officeris very competitive and you are lucky to even get selected to attend the academy. Then you have to attend the academy for 6 months and hope you make it. Then another 3 months with a training officer.
These statements are not accurate. Your knowledge is outdated. Departments nationwide are having to lower standards just to attract applicants, the application process is no longer "competitive". 33% of the most recent police academy graduating class in Atlanta, Georgia had criminal records when hired. And allacademies are not 6 months long, depends on the jurisdiction that hires you. And the actual time with a FTO (field training officer) varies. It can be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, or an extended probation period depending on the rookies performance and evaluations.
 

Devils Advocate

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Sheriff wrote:
SFCRetired wrote:
I would never have thought, not in a million years, that wearing a T-shirt with the word "Police" on it would constitute impersonating an officer.
The charge was dismissed. As it should have been.
Yes, the charge was dismissed. Only because the state code requires something more to occur then display the work "POLICE" on your shirt.

I see itbeing just as bad as the losersout therethat buy the look-a-like police cars with the spot lights. Some even add the deck lights that may or may not actually work.

Some are citizensthat have police badges, scanners, and shotguns in their look-a-like cars. All because they want to be something they are not. They either do not qualify or they were a cop but got fired!

You have to be mentally unstable to think you can play the part by takingso many the steps to look the part. People like this need some serious help.

Eventually they start thinking they can do traffic stops and pull people over. Do a search and see how many citizens do this now!!

It is funny when they pull over a real cop who is smart enough to ask for identification.
 

Devils Advocate

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Sheriff wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
From my knowledge theposition of a police officeris very competitive and you are lucky to even get selected to attend the academy. Then you have to attend the academy for 6 months and hope you make it. Then another 3 months with a training officer.
These statements are not accurate. Your knowledge is outdated. Departments nationwide are having to lower standards just to attract applicants, the application process is no longer "competitive". 33% of the most recent police academy graduating class in Atlanta, Georgia had criminal records when hired. And allacademies are not 6 months long, depends on the jurisdiction that hires you. And the actual time with a FTO (field training officer) varies. It can be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, or an extended probation period depending on the rookies performance and evaluations.
You are a dark cloud on this board and every time you show up you have nothing good to post about anything. You really are disgruntled. How long ago did they let you go?

You want us to think that becauseGEORGIA may or may not have the best pool of candidates that ALL departments hire to these same low standards.

Washington DC did the same thing a few years back when they could not get anyone to join their department. The place is a war zone and all the highly qualified people joined the departments in Virginia and Maryland.DC was forced to lower the standards or have nobody to work the streets.

What would you have done? Stop loss like the military?

So please stop your broad strokes of that bush that no longer paints in blue.

The information I provided is an average and is current.

And to be honest, it is off topic and there is no real need to really discuss it.

The thread is more about lettingthe cop hatred go!

1% are bullies like in high school. I have met bullies everyplace I have been. More good people than bullies out there.

EDIT: Spelling error
 

Sheriff

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Devils Advocate wrote:
It is funny when they pull over a real cop who is smart enough to ask for identification.
There was a case somewhat similar to this in Alexandria not long ago. But the victim was not a real cop as the media reported. He was a cop for a few years back in the 80s. He went out on disability. At the time of the impersonation he was a janitor in a church. The suspect was a 5'4" hispanic male, 140 pounds, black hair and no mustache. And according to the victim, the suspect was driving a 1997 or older dark blue Crown Victoria. He said he was VERY familiar with Crown Victorias and knew the difference between the 1997 and older models versus the 1998+ models.

The suspect they falsely arrested lived 120 miles away and was a 50+ year old white male, 5'11", 220 pounds, salt and pepper (graying) hair and was known to have had a mustache for the last 37 years nonstop. He also had a much newer Crown Victoria.......... light blue. And his Crown Victoria had not been driven for 6 months before the event, the person had just bought a new Cadillac DTS. This can be proven by the storage records of the car.

I personally think the rookie investigating officer was out to make a name for herself. She stated in depositions that she wanted to be a detective, and I guess she thought solving this crime was a step in the right direction to achieve her goal perhaps? Interesting. Anyhow, the suspect information from the original police report was changed to match the person she falsely arrested.

The suspect didn't have to utter one single word in court before the judge dismissed the charge. Not one single word.Zilch. NADA. And 90 minutes after the alleged impersonation, the suspect had driven 120 miles and was standing face to face with a Charlottesville police friend of his, a friend he saw and spoke to every morning at 7:00 a.m. He would have had to drive an average of 90+ mph to set up this alibi! :lol:

I am sure you know there's $4 million dollar lawsuits pending against 2 Alexandria officers, 1 retired and 1 rookie. And a $4 million dollar lawsuit against the Charlottesville officer who provided false incriminating statementsabout the suspect to the Alexandria rookie. As I have always said, a cop's worst enemy is another cop. :)
 

Sheriff

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Devils Advocate wrote:
DC was forced to lower the standards or have nobody to work the streets.
Thank You! I rest my case. :)

And it's happening all over the country, for various reasons. Even the Virginia State Police, the most pretegious law enforcement agency in the nation IMHO, has lowered their standards to recruit applicants. They now hire convicted drug abusers. The applicant simply can't have smoked mariquana two years prior to their application, or used cocaine/heroin five years prior to their application.

Openings occur faster then departments can cram the new rookies through the academies. This in turn affects the quality of training the rookiesare receiving. And this could explain why so many cops don't know the gun laws in their localities now.
 
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