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Some Thoughts

mobeewan

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I saw a news story not long after the 9/11 about alot of police departments suffering a shortage of manpower due to the fact that police officers who were non active reservists and NGwere being called to active duty. The departments had to lower standards in order to staff the departments. So they had to take less desirable recruits and less desirable former officers who had been fired or let go from other departments. This may be the cause of the increase in officers who are overstepping their bounds.
 

buster81

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SFCRetired wrote:
I've been trying to understand why some police officers have such a negative reaction to a citizen legally open carrying a firearm.

Who gives a crap about some block head wearing a police t-shirt.

Back on Track. Does anyone have an opinion on the question at hand? I'm sure there are some that would say that no cop has ever had a negative reaction, ever! And some others that would say, all cops are facists and hate the people! Perhaps we could focus somewhere between these two extremes?
 

nitrovic

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Devils Advocate wrote:
Sheriff wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
From my knowledge the position of a police officer is very competitive and you are lucky to even get selected to attend the academy. Then you have to attend the academy for 6 months and hope you make it. Then another 3 months with a training officer.
These statements are not accurate.  Your knowledge is outdated.  Departments nationwide are having to lower standards just to attract applicants, the application process is no longer "competitive".   33% of the most recent police academy graduating class in Atlanta, Georgia had criminal records when hired.  And all academies are not 6 months long, depends on the jurisdiction that hires you.  And the actual time with a FTO (field training officer) varies.    It can be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, or an extended probation period depending on the rookies performance and evaluations.
You are a dark cloud on this board and every time you show up you have nothing good to post about anything. You really are disgruntled. How long ago did they let you go?

You want us to think that because GEORGIA may or may not have the best pool of candidates that ALL departments hire to these same low standards.

Washington DC did the same thing a few years back when they could not get anyone to join their department. The place is a war zone and all the highly qualified people joined the departments in Virginia and Maryland. DC was forced to lower the standards or have nobody to work the streets.

What would you have done? Stop loss like the military?

So please stop your broad strokes of that bush that no longer paints in blue.

The information I provided is an average and is current.

And to be honest, it is off topic and there is no real need to really discuss it.

The thread is more about letting the cop hatred go!

1% are bullies like in high school. I have met bullies everyplace I have been. More good people than bullies out there.

EDIT: Spelling error

;)
 

Sheriff

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nitrovic wrote:
The standards today are far and away higher than they have ever been. It's extremely competitive and most departments only hire college graduates or prior military.

It's very scary to think you actually believe some of the stuff you submit here. :shock:
 

Devils Advocate

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Sheriff wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
DC was forced to lower the standards or have nobody to work the streets.
Thank You! I rest my case. :)

And it's happening all over the country, for various reasons. Even the Virginia State Police, the most pretegious law enforcement agency in the nation IMHO, has lowered their standards to recruit applicants. They now hire convicted drug abusers. The applicant simply can't have smoked mariquana two years prior to their application, or used cocaine/heroin five years prior to their application.

Openings occur faster then departments can cram the new rookies through the academies. This in turn affects the quality of training the rookiesare receiving. And this could explain why so many cops don't know the gun laws in their localities now.
I did not realize you had some "case" to prove here. Youdid not offer and actual evidence and only presented hearsay evidence to the jury. You want to testify as an expert witness on all the other police departments in the United Statesbut I submit that you are biased and disgruntled after being let goas a deputy.

What you have to offer should not be accepted without written proof.

Your humble "opinion" is easy to figure out sheriff. Doom and despair, always negative, and bringing dread to every thread. You are a dark cloud!

I will try to shift this post back on topic.

I suspect the academiesfocus on things that the officer is more likely to encounter on his or her daily shift. You can only teach someone just so muchor they will have information overload. You cannot possibly teach every important code section.

As open carry grows what gun codes would need to actually be covered at the academy? Virginia is an open carry state. Done! What other gun codes do they need to know in relation to open carry?

What other gun codes are there that they are failing to be taught and must know?

Sure, we would like for them to know all the codes but let's be realistic about it. A police officer's job is far more than dealing with guns every day. They do so much more.

There are a very small number of us that go out openly armed so it probablynot high on the list of things the officer will every encounter.

Sheriffhas an answer to everything but most often that answer is based on his biased decision making process for being let go as a deputy and his arrest he keeps telling about in the third person.

When a police officer sees one of us open carrying he will either know it is legal or he will suspect it is not and approach. Most cops are not looking to screw with you. There is the exceptionof the1% that do push their weight around. But most cops are not like that.

What other "reaction" do you want to know about? His facial expression? If he rolled his eyes?

Not all cops hate that we open carry. I can completely understand if they wonder why we do it since it is very unusual to see in our world today.

And remember where police officers come from? The public sector filled with people who think open carry is against the law. Many citizens have beenreported to have a negative reaction to us open carrying. So why is it so important to know how the police feel about it? WHO CARES!

If your feelings are going to be hurt then maybe you need to stay at home. People (citizens and police) are not all going to like seeingus armed out in public because they fear what people are capable of doing. The very reason why we open carry in the first place.

Do not expect change overnight. It is going to take years and more exposure before it is seen as commonplace and openly accepted.
 

Devils Advocate

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Sheriff wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
The standards today are far and away higher than they have ever been. It's extremely competitive and most departments only hire college graduates or prior military.

It's very scary to think you actually believe some of the stuff you submit here. :shock:
ARE YOU KIDDING???

I could say the same about you.

Please stop posting your propaganda to further your hatred of law enforcement. You are no longer adeputy sheriff. You just play one on the internet.

You do not back up anything you say and I guess you want people to accept it based on yourforum name and your three decades in law enforcement.

I can easily post fiction as fact to without having to back it up.

If you want us to believe what you say, please take the time to cite it in the future. Your rants are getting old.
 

Sheriff

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buster81 wrote:
Back on Track. Does anyone have an opinion on the question at hand? I'm sure there are some that would say that no cop has ever had a negative reaction, ever! And some others that would say, all cops are facists and hate the people! Perhaps we could focus somewhere between these two extremes?
Yes, I have an opinion. It won't be very popular here though, because of the few extreme cop worshippers already in the thread.Thisnew breed out here seems to be absolutely scared to death when they hit the street.And the ony thing thing worse than a civilian having a gun isa civilian carrying a gun in plain view. A gun is greater than any power or authority they have.

Let me give you a quickexample. When an emergency call came in 25 years ago about a citizen needing assistance (life or death situation), we ran balls to the wall to get there and help the person. First cop on scene proceeded to deal with the situation. Backup got there when they got there. But nowadays, the policy is to "stage" close to the call and wait for the second and third officer to arivve before they go in. The act of staging is classified as "officer safety" now.I think it's a bunch of BS simply usedas an excuse.

I knowlarge healthy veteran cops who hate this new policy. Cops that can singlehandedly deal with muggers, rapists and murderers. But they will get written up if they disobey this new staging tactic.
 

Sheriff

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Devils Advocate wrote:
(Sheriff) you are biased and disgruntled after being let goas a deputy.
See? There you go again, believing everything you have been told, a/k/a hearsay. I guess your source forgot to tell you I was a sworn deputy in another county a week before a new incoming sheriff let me go.

It's not unusual for new incoming sheriffs to let existing deputies go. They have the right to hire and fire at will, with or without cause.

Oh well, another thread totally destroyed by the tag team of Devil and nitovicky.
 

Sheriff

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mobeewan wrote:
.....being called to active duty. The departments had to lower standards in order to staff the departments.


Correct. Just another reason standards have been lowered nationwide to attract applicants.
 

Thundar

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This has become so tedious. Why do we have these repeated flame wars? Can't you guys just grow up a little and stop acting like 4 year olds?
 

nitrovic

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Sheriff wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
(Sheriff)  you are biased and disgruntled after being let go as a deputy.
See?  There you go again, believing everything you have been told, a/k/a hearsay.  I guess your source forgot to tell you I was a sworn deputy in another county a week before a new incoming sheriff let me go. 

It's not unusual for new incoming sheriffs to let existing deputies go.  They have the right to hire and fire at will, with or without cause. 

Oh well, another thread totally destroyed by the tag team of Devil and nitovicky.

But you continue to state that you "quit". Yet you posted at another forum there was an issue with "staying awake in court"? Hmmm, which is true?
 

Devils Advocate

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Sheriff wrote:
Yes, I have an opinion. It won't be very popular here though, because of the few extreme cop worshippers already in the thread.Thisnew breed out here seems to be absolutely scared to death when they hit the street.And the ony thing thing worse than a civilian having a gun isa civilian carrying a gun in plain view. A gun is greater than any power or authority they have.

Let me give you a quickexample. When an emergency call came in 25 years ago about a citizen needing assistance (life or death situation), we ran balls to the wall to get there and help the person. First cop on scene proceeded to deal with the situation. Backup got there when they got there. But nowadays, the policy is to "stage" close to the call and wait for the second and third officer to arivve before they go in. The act of staging is classified as "officer safety" now.I think it's a bunch of BS simply usedas an excuse.

I knowlarge healthy veteran cops who hate this new policy. Cops that can singlehandedly deal with muggers, rapists and murderers. But they will get written up if they disobey this new staging tactic.
Your opinion most of the time has NOTHING to do with open carry!! My point made obvious in your quoted post above where 99% of it is aboutprocedures to responding to dangerous calls and having backup.

Now it seems that any person that is pro-police is a cop worshipper. Just like anyone that saying something negative is a cop basher. Sound right?

This board is about open carry. You seem to want to make it about cops so you can complain over and over about them. You have done it on other boards and were banned!

Have you not learned yet? Not everyone wants to hear you keep complaining about the police. We get it! You did notlikebeing fired! Get over it! You are not a cop any more!

I believe that back in the 70's people were not so willing to shoot cops. The policecould run into a house, kick ass, and take names with little fear of death.

Today, you have people shooting cops at the front door trying to search a search warrant. So I can completely understand not running to a fight without help. I cannot fault them for waiting for back up.

Why did this change happen Sheriff? Because police officers were getting killed going in alone! Then the next officer who arrives is unaware the first is dead! He gets shot and killed too.

Stop living in the 70's as times have changed! Police have a right to be scared when they are cut loose. It is a dangerous world out there today.

Steering this back on topic.

A firearm has nothing to do with having greater authority. A gun is a tool.
 

Sheriff

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Thundar wrote:
This has become so tedious. Why do we have these repeated flame wars? Can't you guys just grow up a little and stop acting like 4 year olds?

Not when a few keep telling lies. Everybody knows hiring standards have been lowered nationwide to attract police applicants. And that seems to be the discussion now, some deny it. But they know it's true.

Every time anybody denies it, I will submit proof from now on. Here is today's proof....

http://www.theppsc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1851
 

Nelson_Muntz

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I've heard of folks wearing black t-shirts with large white block letters which say "POLITE". I wonder if that would have offended them as well. What if someone wore one of those while OC'ing?
 
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