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OPEN CARRY COURT CASE, IWB concealed?

T

T Vance

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Agreed! So IMO it would make more sense to OC. If you reach for something and you expose your gun when you are CC, that is a "no-no" (from what I have "heard"). At least if your are OCing you don't have to worry about a pice of it peeking out. What's the difference between letting a bit peek out, and going from CC to OC? For example you are wearing a coat that covers your piece completely, then after a few minutes of being in the store you get hot, so you take off your coat, now you are OCing...wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?
 
Gosirr

Gosirr

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T Vance wrote:
Agreed! So IMO it would make more sense to OC. If you reach for something and you expose your gun when you are CC, that is a "no-no" (from what I have "heard"). At least if your are OCing you don't have to worry about a pice of it peeking out. What's the difference between letting a bit peek out, and going from CC to OC? For example you are wearing a coat that covers your piece completely, then after a few minutes of being in the store you get hot, so you take off your coat, now you are OCing...wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?
Click to expand...


that is a "no-no" -----WRONG: THIS IS NOT BRANDISHING.

wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?-----DOES NOT MATTER WHAT "SOME " THINK, OC IS LEGAL.

BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.
 
dougwg

dougwg

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Gosirr wrote:
T Vance wrote:
Agreed! So IMO it would make more sense to OC. If you reach for something and you expose your gun when you are CC, that is a "no-no" (from what I have "heard"). At least if your are OCing you don't have to worry about a pice of it peeking out. What's the difference between letting a bit peek out, and going from CC to OC? For example you are wearing a coat that covers your piece completely, then after a few minutes of being in the store you get hot, so you take off your coat, now you are OCing...wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?
Click to expand...

that is a "no-no" -----WRONG: THIS IS NOT BRANDISHING.

wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?-----DOES NOT MATTER WHAT "SOME " THINK, OC IS LEGAL.
Click to expand...
Yeah that!
 
Taurus850CIA

Taurus850CIA

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T Vance wrote:
Agreed! So IMO it would make more sense to OC. If you reach for something and you expose your gun when you are CC, that is a "no-no" (from what I have "heard"). At least if your are OCing you don't have to worry about a pice of it peeking out. What's the difference between letting a bit peek out, and going from CC to OC? For example you are wearing a coat that covers your piece completely, then after a few minutes of being in the store you get hot, so you take off your coat, now you are OCing...wouldn't some consider that "brandishing"?
Click to expand...
I saw this "suggestion" on a couple other threads in other forums. I asked the same question there: Where does it say in MCL that this is not allowed? Where does is even mention this? IT DOESN'T. Unless someone can provide hard evidence that it is a crime to take off your outer garment, exposing your piece, this argument will never hold up. As far as brandishing, it is clearly defined as waving/flourishing your firearm, or otherwise using it in a THREATENING manner.
 
T

T Vance

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Sorry if I'm misinformed on some things. Guess I'm just another person who has been told one thing, then hearing the other side of it (the truth side - the OC side) and just want to make sure I understand it completly.

Thanks
 
G

ghostrider

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OC4me wrote:
Was the plea a strategic one? Perhapsthere is aplan to appeal the outcome to a higher court thereby avoiding the expense ofa trial.
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When you plea, you do not get an appeal because you plead guilty to a lesser charge. Since you admit your guilt, there is nothing to appeal.
 
O

OC4me

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ghostrider wrote:
OC4me wrote:
Was the plea a strategic one? Perhapsthere is aplan to appeal the outcome to a higher court thereby avoiding the expense ofa trial.
Click to expand...
When you plea, you do not get an appeal because you plead guilty to a lesser charge. Since you admit your guilt, there is nothing to appeal.
Click to expand...
That is too bad, if it was a plea. I know that there are ways to accept some sort of outcome while still preserving the appeals process. Anyway, I don't know the particulars of this case.
 
dougwg

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Handed in the gun today...

My nephew was,I feel, railroaded by the Plymoth/Canton court and by Wayne county procecutors office for lawfully carry a sidearm. Faced with a felony he took the plea bargain and had to hand in the gun for destruction. Because he, being on probation now, can't be in the possession of a firearm and I can, I met him at the Canton, MI Police station to turn it in and the desk officer felt the need to give me a hard time.

He said that I had a PPO against me which isn't true at all. I not only have no PPO's, wants or warrants but I'm also a Michigan Concealed Pistol License holder. This officer tried to intimidate me by accusing me of being in possession of a firearm when I have a PPO against me.

This is a liiiii...this is untrue. He then goes on to tell me both his father and brother both have CCW's which in Michigan is a 5 year felony. I think the ill informed officer is simply ignorant of the fact that Michigan changed the concealed pistol license terminology from CCW to CPL. I wish police officers would at least TRY to stay current with changes in the law, after all it's their job isn't it?

And please remember, "Don't talk to the police!" it's not only great advice but also your RIGHT to not answer any questions that you don't want to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca3QT1Oq1SE
 
Michigander

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Sounds to me like he broke the law running your name through LEIN. He asked to see your ID, he didn't ask for permission to run it. It's my understanding that without a warrant or probable cause, a LEIN check is an illegal search. If I remember right, the MSP investigates these things. The beautiful thing is that he's on an audio recording having admitted to it, and it will also show up on LEIN that he ran it.

After all the wrong they've done, I think they've more than earned a MSP complaint over that.
 
Michigander

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Cool, and also, about CCW vs CPL, if it's our obligation to disclose when concealing, shouldn't it be their obligation to know what the hell a CPL is?
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

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dougwg wrote:
Yeah, I shouldn't have given it to him.

I'll give Deasy a call tomorrow and see what he says about the run through LEIN.
Click to expand...
A few years ago I wanted to check out a computer system in a patrol car and told the officer to use my info. He needed my consent to do so due to the fact there was was no PC. I came back clean...whewww.... :)
 
Venator

Venator

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dougwg wrote:
He said his PC was that I "wouldn't answer his questions" and that I was "shaky", shame on me for having a headache :banghead:

It's all right there in the audio :cool:
Click to expand...
The US supreme court has stated that not talking to a LEO IS NOT PC. You can go to the FBI as it's a color of law complaint.
 
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