• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open carry motorcycle

sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
imported post

I am planning ahead for the warmer months. Does anyone know the legality of open carry on a motorcycle or do I have to hide it while I ride. I dont like to have the saddle or tank bags all the time. When I was a teenager a friend and I would carry our rifles on a sling on Whidbey Island, the sherrif's didn't mind but it used to irritate the coupeville cops. Oh and I don't have a concealed permit yet, either.
 
shad0wfax

shad0wfax

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,069
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
imported post

sudden valley gunner wrote:
I am planning ahead for the warmer months. Does anyone know the legality of open carry on a motorcycle or do I have to hide it while I ride. I dont like to have the saddle or tank bags all the time. When I was a teenager a friend and I would carry our rifles on a sling on Whidbey Island, the sherrif's didn't mind but it used to irritate the coupeville cops. Oh and I don't have a concealed permit yet, either.
Click to expand...
EDIT: Since you said you do not have a CPL you will need to carry your firearm unloaded andin a secure wrapper or opaque case.

Washington state treats a motorcycle just like any other motor vehicle when it comes to firearms. You'll need a CPL to carry a loaded pistol or revolveropenly or concealed on your motorcycle. You can not legally carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on your bike even with a valid CPL.

If you have a CPL you can carry open or concealed in a vehicle (or on your motorcycle as it were).
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
imported post

O.K. looks like I'll need to get concealed permit. But if i put it in a tank bag unloaded it should be alright tho, or am I wrong the way I am thinking? Yea we carried our rifles unloaded, my freinds mom worked as a paralegal and told us never to carry loaded.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

sudden valley gunner wrote:
O.K. looks like I'll need to get concealed permit. But if i put it in a tank bag unloaded it should be alright tho, or am I wrong the way I am thinking? Yea we carried our rifles unloaded, my freinds mom worked as a paralegal and told us never to carry loaded.
Click to expand...
If it is unloaded in a tank bag then you should be fine.
 
shad0wfax

shad0wfax

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,069
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
imported post

Yup, as joerocket mentioned, if it's unloaded in a tank bag you're good to go. The tank bag would count as a "secure wrapper or opaque case" in the eyes of any reasonable LEO or judge, I would imagine. (It's not like bikes have a great amount of real estate for storage.)
 
J

jeeper1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
692
Location
USA
imported post

Are electric handicap scooters considered a motor vehicle? They don't require a license to operate and are not registered.
 
H

Hammer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
imported post

sudden valley gunner wrote:
Of course then that would leave me handling/loading gun in public view to open carry when I get where ever I am going. :D
Click to expand...
Several possible answers there.
When I have my bags on my bike, I could load the pistol in the bag. Someone would have to stand right over my shoulder to see that.
I most always have my tank bag on, and if it is not too full, I could load in that. With the flap down, it would take a flexible borescope to see it being loaded. Not gonna happen.

My solution is to have the CPL and just hang it on my hip, loaded. You might want to go that direction as a best solution.
 
C

Charles Paul Lincoln

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
222
Location
Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
imported post

jeeper1 wrote:
Are electric handicap scooters considered a motor vehicle? They don't require a license to operate and are not registered.
Click to expand...

Good question. A bicycle is a "vehicle" which is subject to the rules of the road, and you can be ticketed for traffic infractions on a bike just as on a scooter. I would think that a scooter would clearly be a vehicle.

I did a cursory search of the RCWs for a definition of "vehicle" and found nothing. I recall seeing some language to the effect of "designed to be operated on public roadways" but can't find it now. Maybe somebody knows where this definition is.

I have had the same question when I am working on my tractor. Is it a vehicle? Just in case, I make sure I put my CPL in my pocket, especially since I run down or across the road regularly.

Charles
 
C

Charles Paul Lincoln

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
222
Location
Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
imported post

Found this:

RCW 47.04.010 (42):

"Vehicle." Every device capable of being moved upon a highway and in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting power wheelchairs, as defined in RCW 46.04.415, or devices moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.


Interesting that this would seem to exclude bicycles.




Edit: Didn't paste entire definition.
 
C

Charles Paul Lincoln

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
222
Location
Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
imported post

Sudden:

I fixed my post -- didn't have the entire definition.

I am reading this as "excepting power wheelchairs . . . or devices moved by human or animal power . . ." Hence, bicycles are excepted from the definition of vehicle.

Now, to confuse the matter . . . from Chapter 46.04 ==

"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. The term does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds shall not be considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles shall not be considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, or 46.70 RCW. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW.

Note that mopeds are not vehicles, only for chapter 46.

Charles
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

NavyLT wrote:
Why does it have to be in an opaque container or case? That is not part of the non-cpl vehicle carry requirement. The only requirement is that the gun be unloaded. You can carry it in (or on) the vehicle however you want. Notice the part about concealed from view in (3)(a) is for guns LEFT in a vehicle...not carried in (or on) a vehicle.
Click to expand...
NavyLT, check out RCW 9.41.060: Exceptions to Restrictions on Carrying Firearms, subsection (9).

You'll notice that the very beginning of that section states that "The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:" thus allowing you to ignore .050 if you are legally within any of those conditions.

IANAL

Edit: I will admit, however, after re-reading the .050 (2)(a) that it does appear to allow for any unloaded pistol to be carried or placed in/on a vehicle without case/container or CPL, but the provisions of (3)(a) doesn't say whether the person is with the vehicle or not... only that the unloaded pistol may not be "left" in the vehicle unless it's locked away and concealed from view. So, by having it in the case/container per .060, you get around the locked part, even though it's still concealed from view.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

NavyLT wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
NavyLT wrote:
Why does it have to be in an opaque container or case? That is not part of the non-cpl vehicle carry requirement. The only requirement is that the gun be unloaded. You can carry it in (or on) the vehicle however you want. Notice the part about concealed from view in (3)(a) is for guns LEFT in a vehicle...not carried in (or on) a vehicle.
Click to expand...
NavyLT, check out RCW 9.41.060: Exceptions to Restrictions on Carrying Firearms, subsection (9).

You'll notice that the very beginning of that section states that "The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:" thus allowing you to ignore .050 if you are legally within any of those conditions.

IANAL

Edit: I will admit, however, after re-reading the .050 (2)(a) that it does appear to allow for any unloaded pistol to be carried or placed in/on a vehicle without case/container or CPL, but the provisions of (3)(a) doesn't say whether the person is with the vehicle or not... only that the unloaded pistol may not be "left" in the vehicle unless it's locked away and concealed from view. So, by having it in the case/container per .060, you get around the locked part, even though it's still concealed from view.
Click to expand...
The RCW 9.41.060 subsection (9) exemption is to prevent a person who is carrying an unloaded handgun in a case from being prosecuted for carrying a concealed weapon. Without that exception, a handgun carried by that means could be construed as being concealed by the opaque case or wrapper.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it has no stipulation as to limitations... so it can be applied to "within a vehicle" also.



Notice that RCW 9.41.050(1)(a) makes no exception whether the handgun is loaded or not.
Click to expand...

Okay... so? That has nothing to do with this discussion.

All that 9.41.050 (2)(a)(iii) and (3)(a) are saying is that it is illegal to leave a gun in the vehicle, unattended, with the gun in plain sight and the vehicle unlocked. In order to leave a gun unattended in a vehicle, the gun must be concealed and either the vehicle itself must be locked, or the gun locked up. In other words, you can put the gun in the glovebox and either lock the glovebox or lock the vehicle, but there is nothing requiring both to be locked.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that was the intent of the statute, but show me where it states in (3)(a) that it must be unattended for the statute to apply? (2)(a) is the only one that specifies whether the person is with the vehicle or not. Now, like I said, the intent of the word "leave" was likely to mean it was unattended, but I'm sure a zealous prosecutor could use that word to mean "put in" and prosecute as such.

IANAL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top