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Thread: planning a small visit

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    Currently planning a small trip while on vacation. Unless things change, planning to cross into Va. for a little sightseeing in the comming week from Tn.

    Curious as to what I can expect in terms of general treatment from law enforcement, places off limits, general rules and requirements if a business is posted, and whether or not LEOs, both state and local are fairly well trained in the western part of your state as to the ability of Tennessee residents to carry in the Commonwealth with a permit?





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    You could check the Va. SP website for the CHP stuff, as to places where you can and can't carry. I'm assuming that you are concerned about CHP.

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    packingdressagerider wrote:
    You could check the Va. SP website for the CHP stuff, as to places where you can and can't carry. I'm assuming that you are concerned about CHP.
    Tennessee does not have a concealed handgun permit. We merely have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit. Open Carry is allowed by state law. I'm just curious as to the general treatment I can expect from LEOs in general, places off limits to carry, posting requirements, and the general atmosphere toward firearms in general. I just would like some idea as to what I can expect--whether open or concealed--depending on the weather over there.

    I've been reading the Virginia Forum for some time--but I have seen nothing really posted about the western area of the state--over next to the state line, and up around Bristol and around Blacksburg, and through that area.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Tennessee does not have a concealed handgun permit. We merely have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit. Open Carry is allowed by state law. I'm just curious as to the general treatment I can expect from LEOs in general, places off limits to carry, posting requirements, and the general atmosphere toward firearms in general. I just would like some idea as to what I can expect--whether open or concealed--depending on the weather over there.

    I've been reading the Virginia Forum for some time--but I have seen nothing really posted about the western area of the state--over next to the state line, and up around Bristol and around Blacksburg, and through that area.
    Virginia has full preemption, so treatment in the western part should legally be the same as anywhere else. Pray it's not the same as Norfolk, though, okay?

    Here's a link to Places off-limits (See bottom of page)

    The idiosyncrasies include:
    • Concealed only in state parks (still under review) with permit.
    • Must carry openly in "restaurant or club" where alcohol is served for consumption on the premises.
    Other than that, most of the state is quite friendly to carry.

    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.

    Local agencies and governments are fully preempted from making any rules related to firearms, with the exception of jails. Courthouses, schools, and airport terminals are off-limits. CC is banned in restaurants with a license to serve alcohol, but OC in said establishments is legal. Non-students can carry on university campuses.

    Tennessee and Virginia have carry permit reciprocity, so if you have a TN CCW permit you can legally carry concealed in VA.

    The Virginia law authorizing you to carry a concealed weapon authorizes you to carry "a concealed handgun". Carry of more than one handgun at a time may or may not be illegal, and carry of knives is NOT preempted by the state so each city/county can have their own ordinances on it. A 'carry permit' in no way authorizes you to carry knives or other weapons (except a handgun) you couldn't otherwise carry. Rifles and shotguns cannot be carried concealed 'about the person' except when going to or from a shooting range and 'securely wrapped'. Keeping them in your trunk IIRC is not 'about the person', but keeping them in your back seat under a blanket might be.

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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.
    Are you sure about that? And can you site a code reference?

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    Goliath wrote:
    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.
    Are you sure about that? And can you site a code reference?
    § 18.2-308 O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    If you CHP does not allow you to carry at a particular time, then you are in violation of (A) aka the standard statute against carrying a concealed weapon.

    At least, that's how I understand it.

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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Goliath wrote:
    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.
    Are you sure about that? And can you site a code reference?
    § 18.2-308 O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    If you CHP does not allow you to carry at a particular time, then you are in violation of (A) aka the standard statute against carrying a concealed weapon.

    At least, that's how I understand it.
    I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round!

    We need a Virginia FAQ for these questions.

    TFred


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    It is my understanding that in VA a no guns sign doesn't mean anything. You have to be asked to leave, and if you don't then you are trespassing. I know that some states have different laws. But with those states, the signs have to be a certain size, and be prominently displayed.

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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Goliath wrote:
    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.
    Are you sure about that? And can you site a code reference?
    § 18.2-308 O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    If you CHP does not allow you to carry at a particular time, then you are in violation of (A) aka the standard statute against carrying a concealed weapon.

    At least, that's how I understand it.
    It is a trespass issue, not a weapons violation.

    If an agent of the property tells you to leave, then you'd best be 'on your way', but the sign isn't a substitute for a verbal or written warning.

    Some of states have laws which make it a weapons violation, but not Virginia

    Common sense prevails for once.. just think what a problem it would be if a store-owner could a "NO GUNS" sign on the door, and if you entered, it was a weapons violation. After all, some grocery stores are so plastered with signs that you might miss the sign.

    (this issue is what makes the restaurant ban so tricky, Nobody would expect a fast-food restaurant to serve alcohol<ie: McDonalds or Arby's> but there are rare instances were they do... suprise you've just broken the law!)

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    Right. In Virginia, no-handgun signs posted at the entrance to a business have no power in law. If you are requested/told to leave and you refuse, then the business may contact the police who can then arrest you for trespassing if the business so elects to press the issue. And it would not matter whether you were CC'ing or OC'ing.

    As for carrying multiple handguns, there is no statute in Virginia law that specifically states this as law - only being able to carry one handgun at a time. It is not uncommon for carriers to carry a BUG on their person in this state.

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    I can't speak for the far western edges of the state, but our very own jpierce, John Pierce the forum co-owner is from the Bristol area so I imagine we'd have heard of any malcontents down that way. I live in the Lynchburg area and really haven't had much issue any place I've been in the state. I've had meals in the same restaurants as LEOs while open carrying without the first issue and carry openly nearly everyday in various places I go. Suntzu as long as you know the law and where you can carry and maintain a polite demeanor Idon't imagine you'll have any issue during your trip to Virginia. Do make sure you keep a digital voice recorder on you just in case, but this is good advice anytime and anywhere you open carry.

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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    Carrying and entering a business with a sign indicating that you are not allowed to have a gun is a crime (if CC). You do not have to be asked to leave first.

    Local agencies and governments are fully preempted from making any rules related to firearms, with the exception of jails. Courthouses, schools, and airport terminals are off-limits. CC is banned in restaurants with a license to serve alcohol, but OC in said establishments is legal. Non-students can carry on university campuses.

    Tennessee and Virginia have carry permit reciprocity, so if you have a TN CCW permit you can legally carry concealed in VA.

    The Virginia law authorizing you to carry a concealed weapon authorizes you to carry "a concealed handgun". Carry of more than one handgun at a time may or may not be illegal, and carry of knives is NOT preempted by the state so each city/county can have their own ordinances on it. A 'carry permit' in no way authorizes you to carry knives or other weapons (except a handgun) you couldn't otherwise carry. Rifles and shotguns cannot be carried concealed 'about the person' except when going to or from a shooting range and 'securely wrapped'. Keeping them in your trunk IIRC is not 'about the person', but keeping them in your back seat under a blanket might be.
    The question I have--and I have looked at the VSP website regarding the Va. laws on carrying a firearm--Tennessee law is silent as to whether the firearm has to be CC or OC, which means we can carry either OC or CC. We do not have a "CHP", if you ever meet a Tennessee resident who is carrying--if they allow you to look at the permit it will simply say "Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit". Since OC and CC are both allowed in this state, and I know OC is allowed in Virginia--b the question I have is--since full reciprocity exists between Virginia and Tennessee can a Tn. resident who has a handgun permit (which TN. residents are required to have)--are we allowed to carry a firearm OC in the Commonwealth of Virginia, or must the firearm be carried concealed?

    Now as to another important question:
    Since I am an out of state person who would be carrying within the Commonwealth, and I know I am perhaps opening up a can of worms--but I want to know what the limits are for LEOs in the Commonwealth...so with that in mind--I apologize beforehand if I create any issues.

    My next question: If approached by a LEO absent PC am I as an out of state visitor who is lawfully carrying a firearm--am I required to disarm if he tells me to do so? In Tn.--LEOs are allowed to disarm you anytime they feel like it, although the law requires an "reasonable belief" that disarming the person is necessary to the "protection of the officer, permit holder or other citizens" in order to justify the seizure of your firearm.....T.C.A 39-17-1351 (t). Of course here it all comes down to what constitutes a "reasonable belief", and since I have not been stopped yet--thankfully, I am unaware of just how many stops result in the temporary disarming of the individual.

    Now, this begs the question--as a Tn. resident, if approached by a LEO and ordered to disarm, under what Virginia law or for what reasons may one disarm a person lawfully carrying a firearm? May one disarm you just because he/she feels like it?

    I just want to know what my rights are as a visitor if my plans come together and I can come sightsee.





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    To my knowledge the only affect that your Tennesse license to carry has in Virginia is providing you the ability to lawfully carry concealed in VA. No license is necessary for anyone to carry openly in the Commonwealth of Virginia, resident or not, so it doesn't matter whether your home state requires a license to OC. The only places where a license is necessary to OC (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is within the Capitol building and then it's your choice to OC or CC.

    A license to carry concealed in the Commonwealth of VA is by no means an obligation to carry concealed, unless you are carrying a loaded unlocked firearm onto school grounds while picking someone up and remaining in your vehicles. State parks have a rule that CC is the only way to carry, but the attorney general has stated that this rule is unenforceable since the parks department does not have authority to make this rule. To my knowledge know case law exists on this issue.

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    Ok, so my next question--and I know I am asking a lot of them.

    Does Va. require that a person disclose when a conversation is being recorded between two or more people when the conversation is not taking place by telephone? Meaning--can I legally record an encounter with a LEO
    and not have to inform him/her that I am recording the encounter? I go by the old adage--CYOA.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Ok, so my next question--and I know I am asking a lot of them.

    Does Va. require that a person disclose when a conversation is being recorded between two or more people when the conversation is not taking place by telephone? Meaning--can I legally record an encounter with a LEO
    and not have to inform him/her that I am recording the encounter? I go by the old adage--CYOA.
    2. It shall not be a criminal offense under this chapter for a person to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+19.2-62
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