A question to the Arizona Citizens Defense League

I didn't see anyone advocate 'vigilante justice.'

But it does bring an interesting point. In a justified defensive shooting, is there any duty to inform? Are you required to beg someone who wasn't there to somehow determine that yes, indeed, it was justified?

If you didn't do anyhtihng wrong, why not just go about your business? Why should a bad guy get the chance to inconvenience your life any more than his failed attempt to kill you or your family? Why drag the Government, who is never on your side no matter what, into it?

It is an interesting thought. It is perfectly reasonable to me, to just walk away. 'Evidence' is only 'evidence' if there is a crime. Why not pick up my casings and go? The bastard got what he deserved, all done here.

Picking up my casings? Well, it IS my property, don't want to be a litterbug either. Why leave clues for a malicious entity to abuse as 'evidence' of a trumped-up crime they did not witness and the so-called evidence does not prove or disprove? Finding casings on the ground on the ground does not prove the shooting was murder, hell, a dead body with bullets of the same caliber still does not prove murder. If there are no witnesses other than myself, why should I bait a corrupt system in which I will automatically be considered guilty until proven innocent? Only I know it was justified. You think a prosecutor with casings, bullets and a body is going to do anything other than his best to string you up?

Thinik it through before you knock it down, guys.

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We aren't talking "vigilante justice" here.I take that term to mean going out of your way to find criminals and stop them which is something that few if any of us non-LEOs advocate doing. Technically, this is legal though. A citizen can arrest another citizen if there is probable cause that he/she committed a crime. As to not reporting a shooting, I never said you shouldn't be extremely careful. A friend of mine knew someone who was riding a bike home one night and had hundreds of dollars of cash on him and when he was short-cutting through alleys a man stopped him and tried to rob him. He was unarmed and the robber was armed but this guy had experience in self-defense and managed to wrestle the gun away from the bad guy and in the struggle the gun went off and shot the robber. He noticed several bystanders in the alley who he couldn'tidentify and thought that maybe they were also gangsters who would harm him next so he left the scene and never reported it. Quite some time later he was arrested for the killing and had to spend time in prison. He wasn't charged with murder because it was self-defense but he was convicted of manslaughter because the man didn't die right away. The way the court saw it was that even though he had a right to shoot him, he did not have a right to leave him there to die. Apparently, his argument that he feared the others at the scene wasn't bought by the court. In a situation like this, what he should have done is fled the scene and as soon as he was at a safe place (such as a convenience store) he should have called the police from a pay phone and told them anonymously what happened. In court that would have shown that he made at least some effort to report it as soon as possible since he couldn't hang around the scene for safety reasons.

So the moral of the story is that these are tricky situations so if you have to leave the scene make sure you have arguments that work. For instance, you can say that you were scared because you thought his friends were there and might attack you next. By you going to a pay phone and anonymously reporting the details it gets the police there right away and even though they don't know who you are at the time if they find out later then you can now prove you made some effort to do the right thing. Most cell phones have cameras and it wouldn't hurt to quickly photograph the scene so that you have some first-hand evidence that could protect you in court because by the time the cops get there that same evidence could be gone (i.e. someone picked up and removed the criminal's weapon). In a way it is disturbing to think about these situations but since we are carrying guns and there is always a chance of something happening, it is important to ponder what we would do.

As far as I'm aware you are not obligated to reveal or report any information to the police as it is your 5th Amendment right to "remain silent." However, if someone is dying and you have the ability to get medical intervention and fail to do so then it can be seen as negligence and you can be charged with that as was in the above example. All you would have to do is call 911 from a payphone, don't tell them who you are, just say that a man has been shot at such-and-such intersection, you don't want to get involved, and then hang up the phone. The call will be recorded and they have to respond. They would likely respond to both the location of the call as well as the address you gave them. Then you could call an attorney and make an appointment. That way if say three days later they come to get you, you already have a lawyer, and the lawyer can vouch that you weren't ready to make a statement yet.

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I just wrote to Jim Waring, my state senator for district 7. I will let you know if I get a reply.

You can find your senator at: http://azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp?Body=S

Take Care,
Tom

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chesphoto wrote: "The attorney said the the bad guy would have to prove that we were not justified and it is a very high burden of proof and we could recover court and attorney fees if a frivolous lawsuit was filed against us.

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