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Thread: Man shot 22 times before finally going down.

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    http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-a..._incident.html

    This is too long to C&P but well worh reading. I don't know how much is exact but it does point out the myth about the one stop kill from a .40. This officer managed to hit the suspect 22 times with 17 COM and he was still fighting back.





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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    One shot stops from solid hits from an effective .40S&W load do occur more frequently than for lesser powerful loads and are not a myth. But just like most everything in life, there are no guarantees. Defensive handguns are just not that powerful to begin with. They are certainly much better than a hammer, but when compared to a main battle rifle of say .308 caliber.. of course, bet on the rifle.

    There is too much detail lacking to make a reasonable assumption from this article. How did the bullets perform once in the body? Did proper expansion take place? Was sufficient tissue disrupted and destroyed with the early hits? And on and on.

    What this article does prove is that the old adage that, "anything can and very well may happen" is correct. It also backs up the argument to continue to research the latest offerings in ammunition and use the best you can for your sidearm. Then make your hits count as best you can.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The officer may have been carrying high velocity hardball but most definitely was not utilizing DPX or HST with all center of mass hits.

    Good example of Murphy's Law.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    The officer may have been carrying high velocity hardball but most definitely was not utilizing DPX or HST with all center of mass hits.

    Good example of Murphy's Law.

    Yata hey
    "Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available"

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    All I can say is WOW. That guy was either on Angel Dust or just to stupid to die. But at least the LEO didn't get killed, and there were no bystanders hit. I would have thought a .40 cal should have taken him down faster, wonder how many rounds hit vital organs, heart lungs etc.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Holy crap, that's one of the most intense things I've ever read! I almost felt like I was there!

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    OK, finding a magazine holder and carrying 2 spare mags at least from now on. I think that's gotta be a armed person's worst fear. To shoot someone effectively, do everything right, but the BG still won't go down. Not sure how old that article is, but I have to give kudos to that officer.....he's a fighter for sure.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    MetalChris wrote:
    Holy crap, that's one of the most intense things I've ever read! I almost felt like I was there!
    No kidding, I gotta get my BP back down after reading that. :shock:

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    ...SNIP
    but when compared to a main battle rifle of say .308 caliber.. of course, bet on the rifle.
    SNIP...
    Or the masculine version in .30-06!
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    snip.........
    Sounds like a good research project.
    Try this one. Terminal Ballistics from the morgue is a very interesting read.

    http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    After two COM shots failed to stop I would have sent the next two shots somewhere else, if possible.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Agent19 wrote:
    After two COM shots failed to stop I would have sent the next two shots somewhere else, if possible.
    Well I think he tried, but having three or four wounds of his own to think on might have altered the steadiness of his aim slightly. I think the Officer did just fine, HE stuck to his training and it saved his life. Not to mention the assist from his Kevlar.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Of those 22 rounds, you would think that at least one or two of the first magazine would have been center of mass above the neck.

    Officer needs to practice up on his Mozambique drill.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Of those 22 rounds, you would think that at least one or two of the first magazine would have been center of mass above the neck.
    You mean an inter cranial injection of a heavy metal toxin?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ...SNIP
    You mean an inter cranial injection of a heavy metal toxin?

    Yata hey

    Well of course that is what he means.

    It is a documented fact ... now where did I put that citation ... that all criminal behavior is caused by a deficiency of heavy metals in the cerebral cortex. Theplacement of165 to 230 grains of copper and lead, applied at a velocity of between 850 and 1250 FPS directly to the brain will end most criminal activity.

    This is by the way one of the few true cures that is know to be effective and permanent.

    Failing proper field application, an alternative treatment of the proper group of chemicals injected into the patient is equally effective but far more expensive.
    Regards



    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    ...SNIP
    You mean an inter cranial injection of a heavy metal toxin?

    Yata hey

    Well of course that is what he means.

    It is a documented fact ... now where did I put that citation ... that all criminal behavior is caused by a deficiency of heavy metals in the cerebral cortex. Theplacement of165 to 230 grains of copper and lead, applied at a velocity of between 850 and 1250 FPS directly to the brain will end most criminal activity.

    This is by the way one of the few true cures that is know to be effective and permanent.

    Failing proper field application, an alternative treatment of the proper group of chemicals injected into the patient is equally effective but far more expensive.
    Regards


    I have to concur with my collegues.

    BTW, what are your findings concerning the adjustment of weight balance of the cerrabellumby high velocity injection of said metal implants?

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    BTW, what are your findings concerning the adjustment of weight balance of the cerrabellumby high velocity injection of said metal implants?
    Findings are as reported in the following link.

    http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm

    "I see an average of 8.2 autopsies per day/365 days per year, and I can tell you that when the chips are down, there's nothing that beats a 12-gauge. As for handguns, the name of the game is not only shot placement but how a properly-placed bullet acts once it gets there."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    most people fall right over. Something to do with the extra gravitational pull on the inserted parts.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  20. #20
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    Wow, amazing story. Good post, PT111.

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    I noticed that the article didn't mention the physical stature of the suspect. Just how big, muscular was he? This would have an affect on the penetration of the bullets. Not to mention what the suspect was wearing.

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    most people fall right over. Something to do with the extra gravitational pull on the inserted parts.
    That's good. I'll have to remember that.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Hmm...an LEO related thread and no cop-haters.

    Hey Nitrocvnt...looks like you were wrong!

  24. #24
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    amazing, reinforces the point. shoot till the aggressive action ceases.

    that's a problem that has been pointed out to me about training with double(taps) or the mozambique. if you are not careful when training with those, you will automatically lower your weapon after firing the rounds,(advice from my APC instructor). so if you train with those drills, ensure that you do not develop that "muscle memory" or habit, which would cause you to lose precious time if the first shots do not cause the aggressive behavior to cease.

    not in any way saying that the officer did this, seems that he performed admirably.
    I am saying that the perp still going with 22 rounds in his system, demonstrates the necessity of maintaining your sight picture, and readiness to fire.

  25. #25
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    wow after reading the story i have serious problems with why the cop even approached this man in the first place.

    lucky the guy was "wanted for murder" in another state. might have just been another innocent man killed by a govt thug wanting to "know what he was doing".

    disgusting article and disgusting website. and it infuriates me reading the ********* analysis of the situation, and what a LEO should and shouldn't let someone do.



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