Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 61

Thread: Negligent Discharges...x20...across the street...advice?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    102

    Post imported post

    Hello All, and a Happy New Year to everyone!!!! My wife and I had an unpleasant experience on New Year's Eve/New Year's Night. Our wonderful new neighbors across the street decided to celebrate the coming in of the new year by firing a 40 SW semi-auto pistol from their driveway 20x in two separate groups. Scared the dickens out of my wife, and woke my 3 yrs old up; and I was sick, in bed, with ear plugs on, drugged up on Nyquil.

    I found the spent shell casings at the end of the neighbors driveway the next morning and contacted our county sheriff's dept. Sure enough, it was illegal to do in a residential neighborhood (must be further than 150 feet from a residence within county limits). Filed a report when the officer showed at my door. I handed him 15 of the shells. He took the information, explained there was nothing he could do but take an information report, since no officer was there at the time of the shooting. He did attempt to knock on their door, but no answer (approx at Noon on Jan. 1).

    Keep in mind, we live on the crest of a hill. We are on the downhill side of the street. They are on the uphill side, directly across the street from us....think falling bullets...20+ of them...in an arch.... Not wanting to have a repeat of the same any time in the future, what would you do beyond what we have already done?



  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    New Years and July 4th are big redneck holidays around here. Everyone gets their guns-as-noisemakers out for a quick burst on these occasions. It's illegal in the city limits, but as long as you're not drunk or shooting up in the air, the cops tend to turn a blind eye to it.I didn't participate this last New Years because I wasn't home, or I might have.

    -ljp

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    jhow1nm2 wrote:
    Hello All, and a Happy New Year to everyone!!!! My wife and I had an unpleasant experience on New Year's Eve/New Year's Night. Our wonderful new neighbors across the street decided to celebrate the coming in of the new year by firing a 40 SW semi-auto pistol from their driveway 20x in two separate groups. Scared the dickens out of my wife, and woke my 3 yrs old up; and I was sick, in bed, with ear plugs on, drugged up on Nyquil.

    I found the spent shell casings at the end of the neighbors driveway the next morning and contacted our county sheriff's dept. Sure enough, it was illegal to do in a residential neighborhood (must be further than 150 feet from a residence within county limits). Filed a report when the officer showed at my door. I handed him 15 of the shells. He took the information, explained there was nothing he could do but take an information report, since no officer was there at the time of the shooting. He did attempt to knock on their door, but no answer (approx at Noon on Jan. 1).

    Keep in mind, we live on the crest of a hill. We are on the downhill side of the street. They are on the uphill side, directly across the street from us....think falling bullets...20+ of them...in an arch.... Not wanting to have a repeat of the same any time in the future, what would you do beyond what we have already done?

    You will have to excuse the noise on the line.

    First, it is unlikely that your neighbor could fire straight up with sufficient accuracy for the bullet to return close to where it was launched, so you were probably as safe as you could be under the circumstances. Others farther away are a different matter.

    No question about it your neighbor is an idiot. It if a good bet he was drunk when he did the shooting. Unfortunately all you can do for now is what you have done. But you might consider having a video camera handy n the future. If he does this again, grab the camera and try to get it on video, at the same time or very soon thereafter call the police to report it.

    Despite what you may have read between your post and mine, people on this forum ARE VERY INTERESTED in safety. We are also in favor of following the law. The issue is that some laws are not constitutional and we choose to fight them.

    Stay safe

    Regards

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  4. #4
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    Well, aside from ignoring the resident troll, I don't think there is a lot you CAN do at this point. What the police officer said was pretty much true; he has no way to prove that these people were the ones shooting off the gun, and since he can't contact these people, he can't get their side of the story either. I'd keep an eye on these people, not sure if you've had any other problems with these neighbors. Other than that, there's not much more to do, unfortunately.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Laveen, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    432

    Post imported post

    If it were me, I'd try to talk to them and educate them. If you can talk with them in a non-confrontational neighborly way, explain that it's against the law and dangerous.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RTM Rockford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    316

    Post imported post

    In regard to the officer stating that there was no officer present during the shooting, this is probably due to guidelines given to the sheriff's department by the local prosecuting attorney. The real issue is whether there were witnesses who could personally identify the shooter(s).

    You might consider contacting the prosecuting attorney's office to determine the type of evidence they would require for prosecution. Submitting a letter would document your inquiry in the event future incidents necessitate a paper trail.

    Ialso suggestcontacting other neighbors who disapprove of this behavior, albeitin a problem-solving manner. Your new neighbors might just need to be advised how their actions have upset the neighborhood. They might actually be receptive to the idea.

  7. #7
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318

    Post imported post

    They have the right to own and bear arms, but nota right to use them in a manner that endangers others without cause, like firing blindly or randomlyin densely populated areas. If someonefires a firearm carelessly and the bullet hits and killssomeone, it's murder.The right to own and bear arms isn't the right to discharge them when ever, where ever, and however you desire. Bearing arms and discharging arms are two very, very different things. You have the right to bear arms at all times should the need, and therefore the right to discharge that firearm arise. But you don't have the right to endanger other people by being careless with lethal weapons. My question would be, what was he shooting toward or into...

    I'm not suggesting you be aggressive or confrontational, but you couldtry totalk to/ask them about it. Tell them you heard shotsvery closeand was a little worried. If you come across as merelyconcerned and curiousrather than confrontational and angry, I doubt that they would become defensive. I don't know how effective it would be at getting them to not do it again, but it's probably what I'd try. And like Notso said, it could turn into a great opportunity to educate them.
    Advocate freedom please

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RTM Rockford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    316

    Post imported post

    An ordinance which prohibits the arbitrary discharge of firearms definitely createsone of those"victimless" crimes many rally against. Injury from falling bullets, annoyance from the discharge, and other related effects are typically addresses by other ordinances and statutes.

    I wonder how this neighbor would respond to a suggestion that he uses blank cartridges. Although the restrictions against arbitrary discharge and loud noise would still be broken, the hazard of a falling bullet would be eliminated.

    Just another thought...

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ParkHills, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    If it were me, I'd try to talk to them and educate them. If you can talk with them in a non-confrontational neighborly way, explain that it's against the law and dangerous.
    Very well put!! Just introduce yourself the next time ya see them out and invite them out to a legal location or inquire about if they have a membership somewhere to go do some shooting,

    If the ole boy gets ignorant, then just let him know that the next time someone comes by his house to do a drive by shootingon new years eve.,"( by the way I found the empty ammo casings and we can take them to the police if ya want to)"not to worry, you are very well armed and you will return fire immediately in an effort to defend him and his family, so please lay below the level of the window sill until I finish emptying all 10 of my magazines !!

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    190

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    Well, aside from ignoring the resident troll, I don't think there is a lot you CAN do at this point. What the police officer said was pretty much true; he has no way to prove that these people were the ones shooting off the gun, and since he can't contact these people, he can't get their side of the story either. I'd keep an eye on these people, not sure if you've had any other problems with these neighbors. Other than that, there's not much more to do, unfortunately.
    that hasn't stopped them before. wonder why it is now.

  11. #11
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318

    Post imported post

    IMHO everyone within range of his pistol is a victim unless he shoots safely. The community as a whole is the victim if his bullets leave his property. Not because of noise, or annoyance, but because that piece of lead is leaving his property and is entering public and other private property. It's an encroachment, and a lethal one. That's why I'd want to know what he was aiming at... Shooting into the ground is one thing, shooting into the air puts others at risk and where ever that lead travels he is encroaching and endangering the lives of anyone on those properties.
    Advocate freedom please

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    612

    Post imported post

    I was a bit concerned on New Years Eve myself. I live in a very small town here and I could tell a lot of the noise was old fireworks.. some of which were pretty good size from the reports.. but some of the celebratory noise appeared to be firearms.. I may be mistaken due to echo and all but sure did sound like a bit of the ol happy redneck syndrome..

    James

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    If it were me, I'd try to talk to them and educate them. If you can talk with them in a non-confrontational neighborly way, explain that it's against the law and dangerous.
    This. Calling the police is hardly a "solution".

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    I'll go out on a limb and say what AWDstylez said, minus the sarcasm, is basically true. You can either be free or (illusorily) safe.

    I'd say getting the law involved before even talking to your neighbor is a bad move. As noted, the law probably can't prove or do anything, so it only serves to sour relations between you and your neighbor.

    Don't get the rest of the neighborhood involved either (yet), which again would only sour things. Most likely you can work it out individually. Take 'em shooting. Show off some of your guns. Build a rapport. Nobody got hurt so why not start it off with friendly dialog?

    Consider the degree of safety hazard involved. Are they firing into the ground? Into the air? At your house? At you? Most likely, even if you can't get them to change their behavior you'll be fine either (1) steering clear New Year's and 4th of July, or (2) returning fire if appropriate. Anything in between is best left to meddlesome busybody-types, IMHO.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    t3rmin wrote:
    I'll go out on a limb and say what AWDstylez said, minus the sarcasm, is basically true.
    It's funny how that works with him, isn't it?

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    t3rmin wrote:
    ,,,SNIP
    Nobody got hurt
    SNIP...
    That we know of.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    t3rmin wrote:
    ,,,SNIP
    Nobody got hurt
    SNIP...
    That we know of.
    If anybody did they oughta nail the idiot to a wall. Freedom doesn't mean no consequences.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    If it were me, I'd try to talk to them and educate them. If you can talk with them in a non-confrontational neighborly way, explain that it's against the law and dangerous.
    +1
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Perfect.¬* I can endanger as many unknowing or unwilling people as I want, just as long as no one actually gets hurt.¬* I love this place.
    As long as other free (armed) people are around to contend with you... Sure, go ahead.

    Of course I have to (rhetorically) warn you somebody doesn't have to get physically hurt in order for you to have initiated aggression. That's where laws and self-defense legitimately come into play.

    As somebody already said, it's quite a different thing to shoot into the ground versus into the air or in somebody's direction. Why escalate an already difficult situation without all the facts?

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    190

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    t3rmin wrote:
    If anybody did they oughta nail the idiot to a wall. Freedom doesn't mean no consequences.


    Perfect. I can endanger as many unknowing or unwilling people as I want, just as long as no one actually gets hurt. I love this place.
    you driving a car does exactly that.

    especially when you street race. or stand on the throttle having fun.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Holloman AFB, , USA
    Posts
    394

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    If it were me, I'd try to talk to them and educate them. If you can talk with them in a non-confrontational neighborly way, explain that it's against the law and dangerous.
    I was waiting for someone to say that. Hey, always handle stuff at the lowest level. I would have talked to them before I talked to any cops. Cops are useless. Just say hi, introduce yourself and explain the issue. They don't seem very gun savy. Don't turn yourself in to "that guy" and don't turn them into "those people". You know what i mean? It doens't need to be blown out of proportion, yet. Handle it like grown ups.

  22. #22
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318

    Post imported post

    Driving a carisn't the same as negligent discharge.

    It might be close if I drove my car through the air at wellover 1000 fps in random directions to fall at an uncontrollable and unknown location with lethal force, but most certainly not on my own property where it would be legal.

    Driving my caris more like shooting at a gun range. Ifyou shoot somewhere other than the bullet stop where you are supposed to, than you're endangering other people. Otherwise, at least most of the time, the only people that are in danger are endangering themselves, by being on the range when they shouldn't. People know cars go on roads.

    IMHO, the biggest issue is where the bullets went. If they were contained to his own property, the issue is merely that he was being annoying or frightening. If they weren't, and I'm betting that they weren't, then he was clearly well outside the scope of his rights.

    But as far as what to do, I'd agree talking civilly and trying to educate would be my first action. I mean, at least try to figure out what actually happened, where he was aiming, was he drunk, etc.. Do we even know for sure they weren't blanks? There's just too many unknown details to come to a firm conclusion on anything.
    Advocate freedom please

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    It has to be noted driving a car is to wield *way* more physical force than a gun. Cars are used much more frequently by many more people every day than guns. Many more people are killed or injured in any given time period by cars. In a sense, they're much more dangerous. Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming...

    (I'm not disagreeing with the above poster at all. Just sayin'. ;-))

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    t3rmin wrote:
    If anybody did they oughta nail the idiot to a wall. Freedom doesn't mean no consequences.
    ¬*

    Perfect.¬* I can endanger as many unknowing or unwilling people as I want, just as long as no one actually gets hurt.¬* I love this place.
    That's how you encourage responsibility rather than compliance with the abstract. In the long run this is a more beneficial approach, even though it terrifies you.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    stealthyeliminator wrote:
    Driving a car¬*isn't the same as negligent discharge.
    Statistically driving a car kills more people than (what you assume to be) negligent discharge. The simple fact is, as I said above, the way you encourage responsibility rather than abstract compliance is with result-oriented criminal and tort-based liability rather than "preventative" cause-oriented regulation.

    AWDstylez is terrified of peoples' irresponsibility, but what he doesn't realize is that nanny-stating leads to more irresponsibility, and together they form a vicious cycle.

    The way out is result-oriented liability, as I've said. Preemptive cause-oriented regulation is NOT value-adding.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •