Taylor CPL Class $85

For those of you that promote open carry and hold CPL's. So for allyou that say "I open carry here", "I open carry there". I suggest if your really wishing to exercise your rights, give up your CPL and then open carry, and let us all know what happens. How much you pay in attorney fee's, court costs and/orhow much you win in your lawsuit.How much time you spend in jail. Set the precidence, we'll all see the outcome on TV I am sure... I might also add totry it down here, anywhere other then hick ville rural stickwater area's when you do give up your CPL.

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taxwhat wrote:

Venator wrote:

wardog6d wrote:

Thats fine.. thats not what he stated. The fact is he questioned me in regards to the class... The classes State Criteria was met. I wonder how much he charges for his class? and wether this has something to do with his issue.We went through everything in the NRA book, We got one on one with an instuctor at the range. It was up to the individual after the class ended, to hang out and ask any further question not covered by the instructor if needed.

I personally did not have any other questions. I left when excused by the instructor.

His PERSONAL OPINION of another NRA Instructer in teaching the class in the required 8 hours and calling it legally unvalid is not only out right wrong but ridiculous.

Questioning me in regards to My DD-214 iswrong and frankly non of hisor anyone else'sbussiness. With that being saidthe fast is my DD-214 doesnt say anything about "small Arms' but in fact states Expert at Individual small arms weapons as in most cases of any mos especially combat related MOS. As an NRA instructor his lack of understanding in this area makes me question his experiance with the related area of the DD-214. As I know of no one within the army has it stating on the DD-214 "Small Arms"...Each small arms weapons you ave qualified with is listed atleast with every DD-214 I have seen since I have left the military.

Another point is that anyone/everyone in the military has to go through basic training and qualify with small arms.. So that is really pointless...

Ever since this post has been made this person Taxwhat has had an issue... Look athe's post from the startof the thread.. The bottom line is you can get the class for $85. Complete the class ion 8 hours. Whether he or anyone else agree's with it doesnt really matter to me. As the class is LEGAL, taught very well and is very much to the point. The instructer is very knowledgable and answered everyones questions. Maybe he should go to the classhe might learn a thing or two...which he could incorperate into his own training.

If he is that disgruntled about the cheaper, faster competition, more competative competition. Thats that way it would seem to be from his post's...

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Taxwhat has taught the class at cost and makes no money on it what so ever, so your thoughts about him worried about competition is wrong. He is very correct in his position and it was in no way an attack on you personally.

He knows many CPL instructors that do not follow the NRA requirements when teaching the class. Because they don't teach the NRA course they are not qualified by the state to teach the course for the CPL, therefore any certificates issued by them are invalid. That's all he is saying. Whether the course you had is valid or not is not the issue. It's a question of did they follow BOTH the NRA and the state requirements when they taught the class? If they did you are golden, if not...well.

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wardog6d wrote: Taxwhat Reply in Bold

Thats fine.. thats not what he stated. The fact is he questioned me in regards to the class... The classes State Criteria was met. [No it was Not ! (How was it NOT? Becuse you say so?) I may be Hash but Factual ]I wonder how much he charges for his class? and wether this has something to do with his issue.We went through everything in the NRA book, I have Instructor Manual >We got one on one with an instuctor at the range. It was up to the individual after the class ended, No so YOU [ student] must have three hours range time????12:00pm-3:00pm isnt three hours? I was there at the range..to hang out and ask any further question not covered by the instructor if needed.

I personally did not have any other questions. I left when excused by the instructor. YOUR choice Exactly

His PERSONAL OPINION of another NRA Instructer in teaching the class in the required 8 hours and calling it legally unvalid is not only out right wrong but ridiculous. Care to Bet your Freedom fro m arrest ? I can be arrested for anything, any where, any time... This forum has taught me that....

Questioning me in regards to My DD-214 iswrong and frankly non of hisor anyone else'sbussiness. With that being saidthe fast is my DD-214 doesnt say anything about "small Arms' but in fact states Expert at Individual small arms weapons as in most cases of any mos especially combat related MOS. Embassy , MP,SP,OD And Many More !As an NRA instructor his lack of understanding in this area makes me question his experiance with the related area of the DD-214. As I know of no one within the army has it stating on the DD-214 "Small Arms"...Each small arms weapons you ave qualified with is listed atleast with every DD-214 I have seen since I have left the military.

Another point is that anyone/everyone in the military has to go through basic training and qualify with small arms.. So that is really pointless... Your Choice FACT! there is no CHOICE? You must complete basic training in any military unit within the USA which includes qualifing with small arms IE 9mm/M16A2

Ever since this post has been made this person Taxwhat has had an issue... Look athe's post from the startof the thread.. The bottom line is you can get the class for $85. Complete the class ion 8 hours. Whether he or anyone else agree's with it doesnt really matter to me. As the class is LEGAL, taught very well and is very much to the point. The instructer is very knowledgable and answered everyones questions. Maybe he should go to the classhe might learn a thing or two...which he could incorperate into his own training. Hope and pray you are never made a test case in Michigan ! You are free to do as you see fit . The word of the Day ""Vicarious Liability "".Dont plan to be but I WILL BE knowledgabe before I ever even apply for the CPL. I do not plan on applying until I am personally satisfied with my own knowledge. Regardless ofwhatmy instructer, you or anyone else thinks. Not understanding the law and responsability that comes with a CPL is asking for trouble.

If he is that disgruntled about the cheaper, faster competition, more competative competition. Thats that way it would seem to be from his post's...

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ALL I am stating is that because of the lack of education to law enforcement officials. A CPL holder and a non CPL holder are looked at and treated differently in this respect. YES you may have OCed without your CPL, YES members may have OCed in several area's. YES I am stating what I believe to be fact. If you OC downriver in my area, By yourself without a CPL.. You will be charged and Prosecuted for various infractions. Regardless of what the state says, regardless of what you as the individual say, regardless of what this forum says. You should have as stated in this forum. A digital audio recorder andeven a digital video camera. If you do decide to OC without a CPL within the Downriver community YES you had better have a attorney on retainer. It does not matter to downriver LEO's whether it is legal or not. I do not like it, I do not agree with it. The fact is You will be charged with anything from CCW,Brandishing or disturbing the peace... Period. I do not believe it.. I no for a fact, this will happen...

If you OC without and you have a CPL and do not have it with you. As you stated You will possibly lose your CPL.

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Me..

I'm Taylor right now.

Where would you like to meet?

But I will add that it's very cold out right now.

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dougwg wrote:

Me..

I'm Taylor right now.

Where would you like to meet?

But I will add that it's very cold out right now.

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There you have it. I'm thinking dougwg would be happy to show up in your neck of the woods and OC.

Look wardog6d,

Don't take things personally. Understand that your coming on here and stating a bunch of stuff you believe to be fact, while most of the experiences from members on this board are to the contrary.

I do believe it's possible that somewhere there is a "Boss Hog" town with police officers who have no problem with committing purgery, falsifying/destroying evidence, committing false arrest, and basically acting like their own private mafia. I'm sure there are some around. It may even be in your area. However, please understand that lots of people on this board have heard the same thing from the LE in their areas, only to find out that what the officers threatened would happen did not come to pass. What you describe is a well known technique that they use to intimidate people into not OC'ing, and people on this board have been well aware of such techniques for some time now. So, please give them a little grace if they don't believe your unsubstantiated claims of what will happen if they should by chance OC down river. Please pardon them if they are skeptical.

Matter of fact, I was at a CPL class just withing the last month or two where there were similar shenanigans going on. We were even told that the MSP would harass people for having a gun in the car with a CPL, and that if someone saw the gun, then it was brandishing. Just because the officer told us, doesn't make it true. In my CPL class, the lawyer told me personally that it was illegal to OC in Grand Rapids. I didn't argue with him because I knew better. It's like the man said, "Trust, but verify."


ETA:

What, exactly does "down river" encompass?

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Me..

I'm Taylor right now.

Where would you like to meet?

But I will add that it's very cold out right now.

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Again another CPL holder... Sure Doughas said he does OC, Doug does have a CPL... This is not the area I am pointing out here. That is my point to this whole thread. As stated a few weeks ago, even though I have dropped off the packets to several police departments downriver, and possibly some LEO's at the recent gun shows at gilbraltor trade center.

The Fact remains, sure I freely admit I have OCed in the area. However pending further testing in the area if those willing and able to pay the fee's and serve time, those without having a CPL. In my personal opinion, right or wrong I would suggest, not to.

If you can afford an attoreny, paying a retainer fee. Dealing with the legal process, LEO's, courts, judges and time off work for all of this... Feel free. I encourage you too.. Be the test tube baby, Alone, without a CPL...

Show me the light. Until the point in which one person can freely set the presedence. I no longer OC nor will I alone with or without a CPL. This is my personal choice. Even though I agree with it, I believe in it, It is my right,I cannot afford the hassle of it... Bottom line. If you cant you should'nt either.



dougwg wrote:

Me..

I'm Taylor right now.

Where would you like to meet?

But I will add that it's very cold out right now.

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wardog6d wrote:

Again another CPL holder... Sure Doughas said he does OC, Doug does have a CPL... This is not the area I am pointing out here. That is my point to this whole thread. As stated a few weeks ago, even though I have dropped off the packets to several police departments downriver, and possibly some LEO's at the recent gun shows at gilbraltor trade center.

The Fact remains, sure I freely admit I have OCed in the area. However pending further testing in the area if those willing and able to pay the fee's and serve time, those without having a CPL. In my personal opinion, right or wrong I would suggest, not to.

If you can afford an attoreny, paying a retainer fee. Dealing with the legal process, LEO's, courts, judges and time off work for all of this... Feel free. I encourage you too.. Be the test tube baby, Alone, without a CPL...

Show me the light. Until the point in which one person can freely set the presedence. I no longer OC nor will I alone with or without a CPL. This is my personal choice. Even though I agree with it, I believe in it, It is my right,I cannot afford the hassle of it... Bottom line. If you cant you should'nt either.



dougwg wrote:

Me..

I'm Taylor right now.

Where would you like to meet?

But I will add that it's very cold out right now.

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Do the police have some extra-sensory powers? If a person says they had no problems, then the CPL is a non-issue since the police wouldn't know if the person had/ didn't have a cpl without questioning them. I have'nt seen any such experiences listed here.

If, however, I saw a few posts which said " While OCing I was put in handcuffs until I pulled out my CPL card" then you would perhaps have something that supports your contention. I've read all of the experience posts and I haven't found such an event taking place, ANYWHERE in Michigan. (If I am wrong, accept my apologies and please supply a link)

I think that you are attempting to either say that you don't feel comfortable OCing and want us to support your decision not to OR you are trying to argue something that is entirely hypothetical just to argue (astroturfing??). If either of these is the case, we can't convince you (nor anyone) otherwise. The adherence to preconceived, unsupported notions is your right. Our EXPERIENCES tell us that OC is a legal reality and rarely even causes anyone to give the OCer a second look.

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